V (covers hero): I’ve played with V for six hours in total over a few sessions. He’s a loose-passive gambler but not crazy or scared. He limps a lot of hands because he wants many chances to win the high hand. He will call large bets preflop to chase quads. Preflop, he open-limps, and calls wide. He open-raises far less often than calls and has rarely 3bet, certainly never light, as far as I have seen. On the flop, he bets his draws not for equity but for fun. Otherwise, V seems fit or fold on the flop. For example, I’ve never seen him open-raise pre and bet two overs on a dry flop.

Hero (325) has a tight image with V.

OTTH

One limp, unknown raises to 6, hero raises to 25 in HJ with JcJs. V in CO raises to 75. Blinds, limper and unknown fold. Hero considers 5betting-light, considers folding, and decides to call.

Flop (153): 8s9c5s

Hero checks. V bets 75. Hero?

Guys like this do a lot of calling. Because of that, it really narrows his range when he starts raising.

This seems like a fairly trivial fold pre to the 4bet from a dude who doesn't 3bet light.

You say it seems like he doesn't bet A high whiffs otf, so again I think it's a fairly comfortable fold. It is absolutely possible he is doing this with AK, but I'll let someone else pay $300+ to find out.

The open to 6 threw me a bit off. The normal open is ten plus two per limper. Only when I wrote up the hand did I realize hero 3b and V 4bet. 3bets are usually to around 60 with multiple players, so Vs bet was around 3bet sizing.

Is this a 1/2 game? 1/3? Also curious the rake structure. Is it like a $10 cap plus $1 for high hand/bad beat? What is the rake of other games offered?

How light would he reraise pre? KQs? AQo? KQo?

And is he really nor going to bet two overs on the flop when he was the preflop aggressor?

I mean, he sounds pretty horrible, but if that's the case, probably call pre assuming he can have like AQo type hands and fold flop. He would have to be VERY tight for us to fold pre.

Your 3bet is pretty big, but if this is kind of a BS raise size, it's not terrible, especially given the limper. Still not sure if this is 1/2 or 1/3 though.

Torch of $50 pre from pre description.

Torch of any further money put in the pot per your description.

If you have these reads that he barely ever has 3bet why would you call a 4bet? If he is fit or fold post why are you even considering if you should call the flop bet in a 4 bet pot vs a guy who rarely 3b?

How many combos are you ahead of? AKss if you are going to use your reads? Do you feel every time you get in a hand with someone they just might become the trickiest player in the room? They truly might. But not very often.

When a loose-passive player cold 4bets that's usually bad news. I would call in position to a reasonable size. OOP it's probably a fold, but either way you probably want to 5bet bluff with Ax not JJ. Calling probably not as good as folding but better than 5betting.

If you think there's enough AK in the cold 4bet range to justify calling (which you presumably do) then when you do flop an overpair (and you have some backdoor equity) then calling can't be bad even if the sizing is on the large side. Probably close and that doesn't mean you are pot committed and you may want to fold to further aggression. Folding is still probably the most prudent option

1/2. Rake is 10% to 60 plus two $1 promotions, at 10 and 60.

BARF!

Sorry man, I thought I had it bad.

Okay, makes sense. Definitely seems like you would want to move up as bankroll permits and if you are a winning player. Assuming the rake is better at higher levels.

Lol. The rake is the price we pay for civilized gambling—that’s bull****. I voted against legalized gambling. As I expected, the unraked, tips only home games in warehouses with armed dealers sadly couldn’t compete against MGM’s magic video cameras and safe poker starting at 10 am 7 days a week.

Yeah def fold pre it should be an easy trivial fold in this spot since his range is aces or kings pretty much (and hardly, if ever, AK). JJ is just an upper med PP and a passive player who calls a lot and hardly ever raises and is "certainly never light when he 3bets" has aces or kings.

As played, these flops can drain our stack if he has us beat. It's just a guessing game at this point but you can call the flop and if he goes nuts ott we should probably just fold (I mean if we're calling vs him pre, we have to call the flop for the same reasons we called him pre).

Results

Hero folded. V showed KK.

Would you believe me that during the hand I thought 2+2 posters would laugh at me if I folded JJ pre?

Don’t worry about what randoms on an online thread or what people at your local casino think. Follow a logical line of thinking that makes sense for your bankroll and you’ll do fine. Folding JJs pre is not insane here, especially with your history of V.

May the poker gods give me the power of logical thinking in real time.

I know it! But it's cool man, everyone deserves to post a brag post every now and then, good fold otf (but you shoulda also folded pre for the same exact reason) :O