Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game

03-21-2014 , 11:38 AM
Table: Title sets it up pretty much. Not a lot of relevant history among Hero and villains has both have only been here for 15-17 hands or so.

Hero: Younger guy, since V's have sat down I've played 3 hands. One I raised UTG to 5bb, and got no callers. One where I raised to 5bb from the CO got called by the V2 on the btn and barreled a .8psb on a Q98 2f board, btn folded. I also raise 6x on the btn after a limp, got 3.5x 3b from the BB, and flatted. I called 1 street and bet the river, showed down AJ on an A high board and mhig. $1400

V1: Sat down ~17 hands ago. When we were 7 handed he opened 3 times total, once showing down J9s from 2 to act and barreled twice on a J high unconnected board. He didn't show down the 2 other times. His first hand he did call with 86o a 4bb pfr an called a cBet on a 963r board against someone who he has history with. turn 6x, ck ck, rvr blank ck ck and 86 is good vs A9o. Likely reasonably loose, def enjoys playing cards, not a grinder, but not afraid to put money into the pot. Bought in for 1.5k, up a bit. $1,700

V2: Sat down 5-6 hands ago. Has raised once to 5bb, and took it down uncontested. He was on the button and called my PFR in the a fore mentioned hand, and tank folded the flop after saying something about 'having a BB hand and wanting to see the flop'. Bought in for 2k. Looks pretty competent. Is a dealer at a near by casino. $1950

Pre:
1 limp from somewhere
Hero raises to $30 on the BTN with JJ
V2 calls in the SB
V1 3bets to $115
Hero?

Folding I would think is completely out of the question. I think I have the best hand here a good portion of the time as his 3betting range is somewhat wide (read: def not just TT+, AQ+) Esp against a LP raise. Flatting to set mine super deep can be fine, as we easily have odds to call getting almost 20:1 DO+IO on our investment, but I don't know how much he will barrel off with TP type hands. 4betting I would think would allow both V's to play perfectly against us, unless they are just caling moneys, and I don't have any read that is the case. I just feel that I have to give up so often on any flop A, K or Q high if I flat and my hand has a lot of value. Thoughts?
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 12:07 PM
How do you know his 3bet range is wide?
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 12:27 PM
Generally speaking when playing against dealers they know 'the game' and a 3-bet from BB should be taken pretty seriously IMO. But you have no basis for this and positon for the hand so I think I flat here and see if he barrels the Flop (most likely).

'Inviting' V2 into the frey (or having him 5-bet, unlikely) is not that appealing but I think you are actually just set mining here so the more chips in the pot the better.

The other issue I have with a 'dealer' is that you probaly arent going to get paid off beyond the c-bet and you aren't going to get to see his cards. This is certainly a general statement about dealer play, but they have seen plenty of hands to see what happens in these kinds of spots.

I think you will get shoved or flatted if you 4-bet and then you will also have to deal with him leading out on the Flop in a pretty bloated pot.

If you are fan of big pot poker, then certainly a 4-bet is in order. I have no issue there ...

flat > 4-bet > fold You are early in the sesson, might as well get a feel for how things are going to go here with this opponent .. I flat in most cases .. GL
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 03:35 PM
Flat-call and play some poker postflop.
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 03:53 PM
I agree that folding here is the worst option. I would flat and look to hit a set or outplay post flop.
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 03:55 PM
Your image should be aggro, and villain seems reasonably aggro too, good squeeze spot so I agree he's probably 3betting wide. Without more of a dynamic I think 4betting basically turns our hand into a bluff though. We isolate against hands that beat us and risk getting 5bet bluffed.

Flat and play post, especially with position.
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 04:18 PM
pre is boring. whats the flop
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 05:34 PM
4betting is actually the worst option IMO.

Calling > Folding > 4betting

We basically force our villain to play optimally when we 4bet.
He folds all worse hands and only continues with better.
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-21-2014 , 07:08 PM
Anyone who's 4b here best not have JJ as the bottom of your 4b range...

Trivial flat and see the flop.

Folding a good option if you don't think V will pay you off with the weaker part of his range.
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-22-2014 , 05:47 AM
4betting here is nut low for reasons stated above
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote
03-22-2014 , 08:57 AM
I say flat the 3 bet....you have not seen him 3bet yet so not sure how you can assign him a range already. Until I see differently, 1-2 up to 5-5, 3 bet ranges for unknown villains is QQ+, AK....

calling>folding>raising
JJ, 4bet, flat or fold, btn 5/5 deep stacked game Quote

      
m