OP you're an animal.....one thing i was going to touch upon and forgot was that if you feel this guy is playing with more money than he is comfortable losing, the bluff will work much more frequently. Obviously it would be hard for you to know that, but if he is in the game for a lot less, or if he is only sitting this deep because of the fish, the bluff is a lot more sexy. Also, I realllllly dont like his river bet vs a good player given that there is almost no dynamic between you two. Seems like he never gets called really, and he's much better off checking to you and hoping you turn something into a bluff (I do think you get to the river here with a reasonable amount of stuff that would bluff if checked to).

Also, no offense to OP, but dwan bluff still sicker

Good hand. I think the key to making it work was that you had the wherewithall to show him the 10. I fear that I would have just sat there silently and gotten called.

The fact that he folded once shown that card suggests that he is a thinking player, but his river bet sizing (given his holding) is just awful. There is obv nothing that can call that big bet--I can't imagine what he was thinking.

Showing the T was a mistake imo. Why would hero flat the nuts on the turn this deep? I wouldn't say anything or show anything, but the J would have been the better choice imo. Still props to op for having the heart to pull this play off. Glad it worked, or he'd be out a decent chunk of his roll, and the comments on here would be a lot worse lol.

And villain's play is obv atrocious this deep...

Op- did you show both cards after he folded?

Interesting. Good point about the turn. I tend to get these kind of card-showing games wrong, which is why I usually do and say nothing.

My thought had been that a one-gapped suited connector (8T) button preflop light 3b (with appropriately deep stacks) from a presumably clean player would be more consistent with believability (perhaps in light of Opponent understanding that Hero needs to mix his play up a bit) than 8J, and might have been just enough to get the tough fold.

sick

#4 just isn't true from a hot and cold equity standpoint. Maybe you are just giving up super easily to 4bets but depending on sizing I doubt you or any other sicko is folding anything that isn't dominated. Anyway, nice hand and merry Christmas from villain with his river bet, lol. I wonder if you would have checked or bet river if he'd checked it to you.

Thoughts on this being a form of collusion? I mean if it's explicit then that is for sure collusion but if it's just implied...idk
How can you win a big pot off the fish anyway if he has garbage a ton and doesn't bluff much? Seems like people are worrying way too much about keeping the sucker in when the chances of busting him in this spot are slim if he has nada, but if he does have a hand he really likes there is no way you can drive him out pre without like a gun to his head.

Sknight youre probably the only one who thinks keeping the fish in isnt important. There is a big difference between putting in $400 more and $1500 more and everyone, even bad players, realize that. The guy is going to station down and make much larger mistakes postflop than preflop if he makes any kind of hand and AA tends to play pretty well against top pair. Instead you are going to isolate yourself by 4betting OOP against a player that is willing to put you in really tough spots.

Another major plus which op mentioned is that playing against other pros with a fish in the pot becomes much easier so not only do you keep a guy willing to put bad money in the pot in the hand you blunt the effectiveness that a lot of bluffs from the good player would have.

Lastly this is not collusion, its one of the most common occurances in any high stakes game. The fact that you seem surprised by it and question it makes you seem a little green.

I didn't show the other card.

IMO card showing is just really a leveling game at some point especially if I can show a card that will mess with villain's thinking. Maybe I shouldn't have showed?

It's hard to criticize villain's play, maybe he should bet smaller, but I think his hand can still get some value. He really doesn't want it to go check/check on the river.

Maybe it's a difference of opinion, but on this board I like to flat my entire continuing range on the turn IP unless villain is really bad. Villain's range on the turn should be similar to

1) Nutted flushes except the SF
2) AcX
3) Sets
4) Occasionally AK with no club or AXc where X is Q or K.

and against this range I think it's best to flat with whatever hand I have that wishes to continue.

I do give up to a cold 4bet even this deep with a lot of my 3b range here...

When he checks river given his line he is c/f-ing a lot with hands worse than mine (maybe he has AQc or AKc but a lot of the time he just has AK no club or a set) so I probably check back as there isn't that much point in betting.

I wouldn't have. Would you have showed if, in fact, you exactly 8T?

Probably not, and for sure, most people would not.

My problem is if you really had T8 , Would you really show the T....?? When he was asking to see a card, I know I wouldn't for reasons why you showed the T now...

It's a sick bluff nonetheless NH OP

def think you should show unless hes a really high level thinker...if your raising when you show you have a flush hes gotta think your nutted and doesnt expect you to turn a T high flush into a bluff

I think he can be on the next level and think, He is showing me the T there is no way he would show me this if he had the 8

But what if the villain puts us on another sicker level and think he has to know that I know he never has 8 of club when showing me the 10 of club...so he has to have it????

This kind of leveling among other reasons is why I am usually against showing one card in such a big pot esp against an unknown player you don't have a history with...you never know what they're thinking and your logic could work against you.

FWIW I think he was folding anyways. Well played hand OP.

If you were villain, how likely would you think it is that hero flatted the turn with the super nuts with so much money behind, against a super strong range, with one card to come that could ruin everything?

The strength of the river shove is so great that it prob doesn't matter (he's not calling without the 8c), but I can't think showing the Tc would help at all wrt hand-reading.

Op- how did you not show the bluff?

well you have two options once he shows - think he has the super nuts and flatted the turn, or hes turning a decent flush into a bluff, which is frankly over 99.9% of 5/10ers heads....I mean flatting the turn with the nuts is alot more plausible/likely then what hero did imo...

I think that, in general, if someone is willing to show a card that they have a lot confidence in their hand. In my opinion showing here was a good decision just because it makes the hero look more confident in his hand

sick hand

And why, exactly, would OP want to convey overwhelming confidence about his hand if in fact he held the stone cold nuts and thought that Villain had the second nuts?

The implications of letting people know you fold the Ac here is beyond awful.