Those players are still around. They didnt die. And i mean 6max + full ring. I had winners at the limit for 75-80% of every table. Online winners. Winning where it takes a pretty decent player to win. What would happen if they all showed up at Bellagio and Aria?

The day the reg to fish ratio is at live poker---as it was at online poker, then poker just died. But most likely online players are not all moving to LA, Vegas, and the other few top spots. You need pretty damn good producers to win good at live poker. The pace of the game dictates that.

There are thousands of capable 200nl 400nl players out there that are light years ahead of ordinary live 2-5 5-10 players. They just are not showing up in cardrooms, the majority of them anyhow. I see very few in Bellagio or Aria unless it is tourney time. Bring tourney time all year round and the local grinder just had to get a job.

Sigh. Yeah, I'm starting graduate school myself (this was always my plan, though).

It takes a very patient and dedicated person to grind 40-50 hours a week in live 2/5 or 5/10 games. Outside of LA it's difficult to find a daily 10/20 game that is any good. So you have to be content and satisfied with where you are in life to sit there week in and week out grinding away in 'smaller' live games. This is something that younger online guys just aren't going to want to do, and rightfully so. It would take a very unimaginative and complacent 21 year old to want to do this. I think that the big games, 10/20 and up, are going to be dry for a very long time but that the 2/5 and 5/5 size stakes will stay juicy.

gotta agree with this. Playing live for 40-50 hours week in week out is beyond brutal - I find an 8 hour day much easier to be done online at home then in the casino, and frankly I don't think I could play 40 hours a week at a casino week in week out.

You don't need to play more than 40 hours. And it's not that bad once you learn how to be social and have fun at the table and slag it up to prevent death by boredom/nittery. Having said that, I think all you smart online guys should move to Canada or go back to school or get jobs or whatever.

Ha ha I agree that they all should move away asap. When I was playing a lot (for me) it was about 25-30 hours a week in the 5/5 and 10/10. That worked out well, but looking back I ran pretty well and probably was above an expected hourly rate for those games. Plus the games were almost always juicy then so idk if anyone can make decent money playing less than 35-40 hours a week now which really sucks. I say get a cool part time gig

This is very well said and true. Its pitiful to think that the best a live player can do in the entire country is around $100 an hour (maybe a little more) at any game that goes regular every day.

Most young super intelligent players are going to want to pursue other more "industrious/creative" careers in business or whatever than relocate to some casino city to mire up in a career that has a top shelf of 10/20 about. At least thats what i think they think. hell who knows, even the 10-20 may dry up everywhere like the 40 has done (so they say) given a few more years.

This is (was, what good not last forever) the best thread ever. Ever!

Update? How things going for the live grinders now?

I'm a former online winner who is a "live grinder" now.

I'm crushing live NL for like 25ptbb over 450+ hours of play.

lol live

whats that, about 500 hands?

well ill speak for my self, I pretty much crush Live poker its just hard to have that motivation to grind all the time, I kill 2/5 pretty consistently but run bad at 5/10. Just when I built a roll on Everleaf enough to be able to make some money off of it, US players get banned, so I guess it's back to Live, and hopefully I can get that money off of Everleaf one day.

stakes?

mostly $2/5 with some $5/10 and some $1/2 while waiting for tables

I don't play in a major casino so $2/5 is usually as high as it goes

gotta bump my favorite 2p2 thread of all time

No, it's closer to about 12,500-13,500 hands.

limon had the first and last word on this, and he was right. Black Friday hit, and then the bigger live games where all the online players were going to crush simply did not change much, just like he said. read his HSNL thread if you want details.

the assertions of this thread and that discussion aren't even close to the same.

fwiw those games are nearly dead. And I don't think many of the online guys would have disagreed with limon's assessment that not a lot of online pros were going to become high stakes live crushers after BF hit. Mostly due to the fact that the games rarely run and only run in a few places. People that are living in NYC or Chicago or bum**** nowhere are not going to just move to Vegas to take up live poker because they were good online. The lifestyle is totally different, and a lot of us had most of our bankrolls locked up when everything went down. Not too mention families or jobs or whatever ties a person down to a location.

Listen, the fact is that (with the exception of a few players) live pros do not have as good of an understanding of NLHE as online pros. They don't have the experience, they don't play in as tough of games, and they usually haven't studied or worked to improve the way online pros have. It's the truth. I'm sorry that makes you butt hurt.

That being said lots of live pros are terrific at NLHE and would find lots of success online if they decided they wanted to apply themselves in those games. It's a different beast, but I'm sure there are pros out there that could figure out the online game and be big winners. Most of them don't do it for the same reason that online guys don't move to live arenas. They like playing live, they like the lifestyle, they don't want to move out of the US.


but thanks for bumping this thread. hopefully we'll get more memes making fun of the ridiculous **** that you see in live poker. It's a shame that most of them expired in the last year.

I'm a live player and i agree with the above.

sarcasm detector must be broken.

And fwiw a bit after BF in the 5/10nl games (nothing higher really runs at my nearest casino) I heard a lot of the regs complaining specifically to me about how since BF the game had gotten much tougher. I specifically remember we were playing shorthanded for awhile all regs and one of them (actually the one I considered one of the better ones) sighs loudly and mutters "why don't you guys go back to the ****ing internet" and moves to a 2/5 game. I haven't played in that game in something like 6 months now so idk if it's gotten better/worse or if 5/10 even runs, but it definitely did have an impact on the games from what I could tell. But then I played 5/10 and 10/25 during wsop a month or so ago and the games was mega-soft so who knows.

A lot of the live games are getting real cutthroat, as per my intel.

Still better than internet, but not a fiesta that makes it so you wouldn't consider any other life options.

What percentage of online players actually switched to live that are playing for a living? I bet its pretty low. Im guessing less than 20% and bunch of them probably werent even solid cash game grinders.


and very disappointed that goat thread has been ravaged by time so much gold lost.

I don't play for a living and never did. However, I would say that the 5/10 games and above at Foxwoods/Mohegan have gotten a lot tougher than they were prior to BF. Used to be 1 or 2 good players and the rest soft...now it is 1 or 2 soft and the rest good. The 2/5 games are still uber soft though.

Update?