Wow wow. this is a level correct? its only checking it once?!? my my. Ive heard it all now. Next you're going to say that wasnt meant to be a factual statement.

In case your serious. aggressive players dont auto check to raiser...especially in wet 3 way pots.

I never said they do, but his first check is very close to meaningless, and 100% standard with a good hand

Its a horribad check with a good hand. glad its standard.

I think people think the bet on the turn in the first hand is bad because it is prolly -EV when called, and people think that all bets for value need to be +EV when called, but multiway or hu for that matter it can benefit you to just take the pot down. A -EV bet when called can still be the right play because it vastly increases your chance of winning the pot by protecting your hand and by not being bluffed on the river.

I don't have too much of a problem with the turn bet and I think it's close, but probly would check myself. once I get check raised on the turn, I honestly dunno if I would ship, but in theory ship should be good because of what everyone has stated. I just think I would need more info. then internet kid and crazy game, to feel confident enough to know that he wouldn't wait to ch/r either you or the donk on the turn with a value hand. And if I had the read that he was a good player, I'd think he would lead all his draws and ch/r only value cuz it looks so narrow.

from the hands you've described about this kid, it seems he has FPS real bad, and is not that great of an internet player, but hey, everyone can have a bad night.

this thread just keeps getting sillier and sillier

i'm kinda curious what hero's line is if the V leads the turn 3/4 pot? are you still bluff catching? one street only? turn and river (unimproved)?

based on this thread, i'm gonna start checking big hands twice OOP, then c/r'ing the turn when my opponent bets in order to represent nothing and get shipped on by bottom pair.

i hope youre joking? gl w/ giving 2 free cards a majority of the time and still turning over a winner...

of course, but just look at how badly LAF's hand is doing when the villian has any made hand instead of a draw. out leveling etc......

reminds me of that thread where the guy opened A4cc in EP and the flop checked through in a multi way pot. then when the hero bet the turn, a spazzy villian raised huge. he has a draw there quite often, but what if he didn't and slowplayed top 2 or a set or something that obv would have been a terrible line in a multiway pot, but he would have doubled through hero with a pair of aces / crappy kicker.

1- I think it’s a bit fancy. If I were villain and I decided to CR with any Tx hh or and Jxhh I am calling all day as your bet looks like air and the shove looks like desperation. He isn’t raising 800 and folding for 1k more very often I don’t think unless there was some crazy history he saw. I just don’t see the internet guys putting in this much on turn then folding like a wuss. I don’t see it. I take the check down and lose a fair amt. but win a few too.

2- Wow, no pair no draw, OOP with a bet + a caller + the flop is such that even if kid bet 65 with one diamond he is calling flop usually as live players do so often. As played, I would not bomb the turn. I would rather bet 250 and if just called ensure he does not have some rando A7 hand, and then bluff a nice value size on river folding out draws or diamond draw + pair of 22. Half pot on river would be enough I think. But then again, I would never get here.

3- If this is his normal 3 bet sizing, and does it often, I like the ship. If this was a bit larger than normal then I would contemplate what the larger bet means. If we think that flatting his 3 bet would set off alarms and prevent him from cbetting overs on a lo flop, then I like the ship. If flatting the 650 wouldn’t phase him and he will still cbet all his AJ AQ KQ etc on lo flops, then I prefer flatting and shipping on a lo flop. A lot would depend on how I think he will react to whatever action I take vs his 3 bet.

Man Im gonna call BS on this. If I woulda said I checked the flop w/ JJ and bet shipped the turn and the internet kid called me w/ Tx. Everyone on here would be saying he was such a fish, donk, prob a live palyer or tourney guppy etc. They woulda said my range is super stong obv. a live fish slowplay etc. YOU KNOW THIS IS TRUE!

LA, i said if he has TXhh that he is not going to raise 800 and fold. You disagree?

Whatever he chose to semi bluff raise the turn with i think will call the shove most of the time unless he is on total air. Somehow I do not believe that you have enough info. on him to know that he is capable of a total $800 air bluff, so that is why I discount it.

And i said that at live poker 5-10 I dont see players raising 800 and folding often ever at all on the turn. So Im confused as to your come back that you call bull on it. If you chk back JJJ and bet/shove the turn, I FULLY expect villain to call with ALL of his raises on the turn that had equity.

Played with some internet kids (they didn't seem that young actually) in AZ and sadly they were both good at live poker and had pretty good etiquette all things considered.

Ya this is generally the case but as you can see from my other thread there is still a large minority that just dont get it and need to be smacked into line.

in ANL's defense, I was one of the first people that responded to the thread and I said if villain is decent at all he's not folding any pair that he c/r'd the turn with.

in the end this is a relatively uninteresting thread because the players that you played again clearly were not good. maybe they were loose or aggressive, and wore hoodies, but that doesn't make them good players. and if it wasn't for the silly live vs online infighting that keeps making it's way into every thread I think this one would have died 50 responses ago.

yeah, i think we would all be better off if live players would stop assuming that every player who fits their visual stereotype of an internet player is in fact a former nlhe cash grinder

Errrrr, I didnt assume anything, did you read the op???

okay so they play online poker. that doesn't mean they're automatically winning cash grinders

I never said that in the OP or anywhere else. Lotsa baggage ITT.

it's very clearly implied. you can be like "HEY MAN I NEVER SAID THAT" all you want but it's very obvious what you mean

looooooooooootsa baggage. Are you my wifes gimmick account? I always love to find out what I actually mean.

dude chill

commerce sounds like a great place to play 10-20

I almost really like your play on hand #1 this is a great play against alot of villians, but not one with history that would love to call us light to stack us especially considering stack sizes. Thinking about it more I like it more. why? because you rep nothing and you know that he knows u rep nothing. So whats the best play to stack a guy that is good enough to know that its a terrible board to slowplay on. hmmm slowplay.

Hand 2 I find it extremely odd he open limps JJ there, and if that truly happened I dont want to put my stack in to see what he has. Saying you know he wouldnt open limp an ace is 1st level thinking you might be right and win a small pot or wrong and lose a big one.

Hand 3 given the dynamics going on is clearly a cooler.

Asking to see someones hand is allowed to catch collusion if you ask to see for any other reason its wrong I dont care what a prick he was. I've never asked to see someones hand, and never called the clock on someone and I'm not a nice guy.

I'd also like to say I have no idea why everyone thinks the turn bet is bad. Theres alot of draws that are calling, and hes planning on shoving over a raise, so to me its a no brainer bet for value. If hes planning to bet fold it would be a little thiner but still ok. I can see some are thinking you have a bluff catcher hope to induce a river bluff, but your just guessing then.

ok can we stop the results oriented thinking about hand 1 please? I mean everyone who is loving the bet/shove line is making this argument "even though we really know nothing about player other than he where's a hoodie we know that he would never c a good hand twice, and when we bet on the turn we know that he knows that we never have better than a T, so his c/r has to be a bluff, therefore we can ship our A5 and either stack a draw or get him to lay down his air". this may have been the case, but OP gave no reads to lead me to think that a) villain is never checking a decent hand twice b) when we shove he'll never call with a better hand or c) he's thinking on level two meaning that he's going to go after us on the turn when we bet with a seemingly capped range.

all of this may be true. and with a read I can buy the argument for the play. but nothing presented in OP made me think you had that kind of read.

and fwiw people arguing against betting the turn aren't arguing against it because we think we should be bluff catching a lot of rivers. we're arguing against it because you've got a ****ty pair that might be good at SD, but we can't think of great reasons to put in a ton more money.

I give credit to the OP. he made a solid read (guess whatever) and acted on it. it worked out for him. great job. but he's asking us to give him advice based on the info given. based on the info given I can't say that b-shoving the turn in that hand is a great idea.