Ok, so important information is as follows: This game is live cash, Hero's image is solid winning reg, but on the TAG vs LAG side in comparison to the average reg. Stacks to start the hand are essentially identical sitting with ~$2,000(200bbs).
Here is hand:
Hero opens AcAh from MP1 for $40
Villain1 (LAG) calls $40 from BTN
Villain2 (Donk) calls $40 from BB

Flop ($120): 9c Kc Qd
Villain2 bets $85
Hero raises to $285
Villain1 calls $285
Villain2 calls $200 more

Turn ($975): (9c Kc Qd) Jc
Villain2 checks
Hero bets $475
Villain1 raises to $1,000
Villain2 calls $1,000
Hero ???

Ok, so here is the issue I have. Villain1 is more than capable of clicking back hands that I am either beating (AJ,AQ,AK,etc.), or drawing decently against (KQ, KJ, QJ, etc.), also he could have any number of CD's here. Villain2 is just a complete polarized fish who is never not leading (let alone flatting instead of raising) this turn with a flush/straight, and is never not raising flop with a set. Keeping in mind that we would only have about $700 behind if we call the total $1,000, and the pot would be roughly $4,100 (so like 0 FE), WTF do we like as a line when were getting like 5.5:1 on a call?
Also, I sized the bet on the turn so that I could remain in control of the pot bc the turn obv brings an expansive amount of options. However, do we like another line better? Like committing ourselves with larger bet, or checking (if so with what intentions).
Lastly, this is not to post results I just have been looking into spots like this for a while now in live cash; what do we do on river?

As it plays out:
Hero calls $1,000 total on turn

River ($4,095): (Kc 9c Qd Jc) 10h
Villain2 checks
Hero goes all in for $675 (correct? check call?)

I would like to point out before I say, "thank you for the input", that this was a LIVE game, and I have ridiculous amounts of hours on both Villains and reads are correct. I appreciate any/all input, but please realize that I understand this hand should (and would have) been played out differently online vs live, and am looking for LIVE responses.

Thanks for the input guys!

i think betting turn is burning money, but i want others to confirm this.

Flop: I'm not raising vs a good player because he should be quite strong here, so many value combos of JTs/KQ/99 and all that ****. Vs a Donk who can have way more KX and random gutshots a raise is definitely good here.

We block Ac and when I get called by the other guy I'm already going to be giving up because if he calls here he has AK at the very least but you block combos of AK + he should 3bet that some % of the time. He is freaking strong.

Turn gives u FD but you are screwed vs villain 1's range and he is not folding **** now (are you betting to try folding out KQ? Not a good idea vs live players).

I check and decide if I'm getting the right odds to chase my FD and pray that some 10% of the time I win the show down when some nice river comes even if I don't hit my flush.

the flop raise and the turn bet are both really bad. What was your thought process in making these decisions?

Flop raise is fine. Turn bet is not. Do you have a picture of yourself as your avatar?

flop is an easy raise imo

I don't hate raising the flop but I'd def make it a lot smaller, like 180-220ish.

No idea what's going on at the turn.

flop raise is fine vs a fish...turn bet sucks.

Ok cool. Thanks guys, pretty much the same general consensus from everyone. Much appreciated!

Turn is a check-call or check-raise imo. Your bet accomplishes everything that we don't want (forces us to put the most amount of money with least fe, only getting called or raised by better).

+1.

Also it's extremely optimistic to think that the button is betting worse on the turn here. You say he has a number of combo draws. What are these draws you speak of? You hold the Ac and the Jc peels on the turn so a big pair/draw hand he can have on the flop is QTc exactly (i.e. a straight). There's a decent chance the donk has this hand as well (explaining the check call for 1K).

check/call a reasonable bet on the turn ($500 getting 4:1) or check/fold to a big bet ($1K). Betting is lighting money on fire.

Check-raising this turn is not wise IMO. Nobody is folding a T and the donk could call w/ 2 pair.

it would seem that you're overrepping your hand by both raising the flop and betting the turn. sure you have hours of reads on these opponents but if they have plenty of p+d or combo draws here w all their dominated broadways they flatted pre, then they likely have plenty of 2P hands as well on this flop. even if you knew that all donk bets meant a capped range of 1P for v2, it's still an optimistic value raise on the flop with another station left to act behind.

ott the worst card essentially hits, and yes you have additional outs now with flush and gs outs, but multiway i don't understand this bet. what better hands do you fold out that have no outs to improve? what worse hands do you keep in that have no outs to improve against you? are you turning your hand into a sbluff?

OP I think you need to realize that given # of opponents, flop play, how much money they've willingly invested into this big pot, that turn card is NOT a good one for you.

just because you hold the Ac doesn't mean you even have 9 outs, and you most likely don't. and why should you inflate the pot and stack off against 2 guys when you are most likely behind???

Turn call is fine and river shove is fine too because your calling anyone's all in anyways and if they were going to check back you have them beat on the river anyways and its a sort of value bet on the river by you. However you check raised the flop and when the turn came and you bet, you got raised. You have to figure that only a flush will win the hand for you. That being said you are pot committing yourself to a call on the river if you make a straight. I would've gone for c/c the turn for pot control purposes (give you opportunity to fold river without being pot committed)

Flop is meh, Turn is pretty bad imo

turn bet is pretty bad imo.

There isn't a single hand you beat that called you on flop on the turn....
Unless you think a pair with an 8 or lower kicker caller you on flop. And you've got two blockers of aces so one of those cats has got you. I don't even like the flop raise considering your 6040 equity against any pair and any pair on the flop has an inside straight draw that. Bad play imho

Raising flop to 285 is no good IMO. I would flat here.
Leading turn after this horrid card hits is suicide. Obv call it off and reload.

But this is also why I would play a much smaller pot on the flop when we are deep. WE dug the grave, then felt we had to jump on in it when done.

What everyone says. Also, check-call river.

This exactly. Question after bet is more a sizing ? as to whether you have direct odds to nut flush.

Agreed!





Chris Mankamyer