SB and BB seem like fairly straightforward recs. Haven't been overly active and haven't been involved in any eventful hands. BB is a youngish skater looking 20 something.

I haven't really got out of line much either. Have opened a number of pots when folded to me but nothing outrageous.

2/5
10 handed
I have 500
SB covers
BB 400
Folds to me on the button.

I open J7s to 20
SB and BB call

Flop J62 rainbow.

Checks to me, I bet 40
SB folds
BB check raises to 120

Should I be checking behind here on a dry flop like this where villain assumes I've missed and am just standard c-betting and I can easily be bluffed off the best hand?

I'm probably checking behind here not because it is a good bluffing spot (it only is to a pretty high level player) but because I doubt many worse hands can call and I might induce a bluff on the turn.

you need to balance your cbetting, do you always cbet? do you cbet depending on the board etc?
I would rather check this back a little more than often jsut for the fact that you either ahead a fair amount of the time and villain hasn't got much or you are behind hard am can get in tricky spots later.
as for this hand what is the villain repping? yeah you have top pair average kicker, but is the villain capable of check-raising with worst? in general I would say no unless I have seen it before from this guy.
would expect too see sets/AJ here a lot of the time if it went to showdown

Hand is fine. Bet/fold looks perfectly fine.

One reason we should usually bet here is to get villains to fold Q,K,A.

You can also get value from some worse hands.

Bet/fold flop, and if called, check back turn.

If you held say A5 on A62r, then I'd very often check back the flop. J7 on J62r is different because villains can have so much equity with over cards that fold to your c-bet.

In this spot, I'd definitely fold because we're folding to basically any more aggression unless we bink a 7 OTT. Given reads on villain, and the fact his raise size is indicative of a fundamentally sound player, I think we can easily get away from this hand confident in our move.

I figure I'd check back J7 on this board for the same reason I'd check back A4 on a A92 board. If an ace/king comes we can bet if checked to as it hits our range so hard. By checking back we keep our villain range wide, and allow him to bluff at us on later streets. Also, we avoid getting bluffed early on and folding the best hand. Given the description of villain, I expect to get bluff raised semi-frequently but also understand that this board hits his calling range simultaneously.

Your post is super interesting to me, but I'm not sure if I can yet change my opinion on my above post. QKA boards only are going to come around 32% of the time. I'm not into betting for protection here because I think most villains play face up on turn/river. I agree we can get value from some worse hands here, but can't we get more value on future streets. Basically, I could see getting 2streets of value by checking back and only 1 street if we bet here. Obviously checking back and giving a free card is higher variance, but perhaps it is more EV (perhaps not).

Thoughts?

I posted this hand for a few reasons but not because I was seeking advice on how I should respond to the c/r. I folded.....mainly because I didn't want to play a big pot with TPNK even though I was in position and my hand is pretty strong in this spot.

It's really an under-repped type hand but I'm facing aggression from a villain that assumes I've missed the flop which is obviously highly likely.

I guess what I'm saying is I feel air is a decent part of his range here but do we want to play a big pot in this spot?

No, we respect Vs aggression and fold.

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'They are not playing back at me. They are not playing back at me.'

Hand is played fine. You can check back the flop sometimes to get value from him leading the turn of river. I'm a nit and fold a lot of buttons when folded to me if they don't have post flop playability but j7ss is a nice post flop hand.

Read dependent of course...you can shove flop if you think you may fold out hands that beat you like qj or kj but it's a high variance play

I think anyone vehemently arguing that either checking or betting flop as obviously better is thinking too linearly. Also in general I usually bet like 30 into 60 off on a board like this with 100bb stacks.

What to do to the raise is really player-dependent. Some weird button clickers will c/r A6 or 99 on this flop and then try to get to showdown. Some only have like KJ+. Some are balanced. I think against more average/weaker regs you can just fold, especially if you cbet 2/3 pot or more. Against passive regs folding is probably correct, but there are definitely some brainless types that like I said c/r to see where they're at with like 77 or something and then shutdown, if you have a bdfd I don't think seeing a turn card against a player that isn't too smart can be a huge mistake.

Am I the only one that mucks these kinds of hands preflop with 100 BB stacks? If I am playing these in LP I want to have deeper stacks and an image to back it up.

Doesn't seem like this game has been going on very long. This just seems like an unnecessary spot to subject yourself to and a touch of boredom tilt.

What's your btn opening range

I don't have a static BTN opening range. It's dynamic and depends on table conditions, villain tendencies, stack sizes and my image.

The value from raising J7s on the BTN is stealing the blinds. Not being forced to play a hand with J high. If I think I am at a table where J7 will get defended by the blinds then I instamuck.

This is a very old story. At NLH, don't bet if you don't know what to do if you get raised. The object is to keep your decisions relatively simple, compared to your opponents'.

This HH is a good illustration of that point. It's a spot where betting creates more risk than reward.

This hand can play so many different ways. Let's start over and ignore the c/r.

A c-bet does many things. It can get value from 43s, 54s, 33-55, 6x, 77-99, Ax. Those hands are much less likely to give us value on so many turn cards - so targeting value on the flop is optimal. A c-bet can also get folds from some of those hands. We prefer a call, but if villain won't call, then a fold is next best. We don't want villain to freeroll us. For example, if he'll fold 33 to a c-bet and will only put chips into the pot on a later street if he binks a 3, then a c-bet that folds 33 is a fine c-bet. But yes, a call is even better.

Like I mentioned above, the c-bet also gets villains to fold some Ax and probably all disconnected Kx and Qx. Getting villain to abandon some % equity is a good outcome, and again, if villain has K9s or w/e, he's usually giving up on the hand on a later street anyway unless he binks a K. Allowing him to get to the turn with those hands doesn't do any good, and getting him to fold the flop with his overcard equity is good.

J7s isn't much more than a bluff catcher here. At the time we see the flop, we do almost always have the best hand with top pair. But it's not a hand that can get much value vs. worse or call bets against villain's "value" hands. So I'm particularly inclined to c-bet, which does have a value component but also has an important bluff component.

There are many similarities with A4 with A62, but that is a spot where I'd almost always check the flop. In that spot, we also very likely have the best hand, and we also can't get much value vs. worse. We also can't call off multiple bets vs villain's "value" range.

However, A4 on A62 is quite different for a few key reasons. For one, people fear the A-high flop, and I don't expect a c-bet to get value from hands like 33-55, etc. We also (of course) can no longer get value from unpaired Ax. For another, and also important, the turn can never be an overcard to our top pair hand - in other words, if we have the best hand on the flop (and again, we very often do), villain very rarely has any meaningful equity. A4 on A62r is very similar to KK on A72 - both are textbook WA/WB.

The J7s hand is not WA/WB especially because we can get more value vs. worse on this texture in this dynamic and because of the dynamics associated with turn cards (A,K,Q).

Another benefit of the J7s c-bet is that it gives us a ton of options on the turn in position. I expect villain to fold to our flop bet often, call it sometimes, and c/r it very rarely (hence, let's ignore the c/r for now). When he calls, a lot of things can happen on the turn. We can turn a flush draw if we have the back door draw. We can bink two pair or trips (debatable whether trips is a cause for celebration or not). The turn can also come an overcard to the board, which may or may not also give us a flush draw.

On the turn, we can consider a) checking back blank cards; b) value betting when we (rarely) improve; or c) even barreling as a bluff on scare cards, especially ones that give us draws. Barreling is a bit tenuous because overcards can improve the hands we want to fold (i.e. a turn K improves KJ), but I'd want to consider it, and we can in position.

As played, it is an easy fold to the c/r. If you saw villain do this in the past with a weaker hand "for information" or w/e, that's different. But until you have such a read, I don't think it's that close. I think the 3x raise sizing is also important. Sometimes you see a smaller raise to "see where they're at," which can be a bit weaker and of course gives you better odds to peel one bet. At this time, I'd assume villain wants to play a big pot.

I think that's OK. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing tight. But J7s (without other reads) is an auto-open for me on the BTN. Position + suitedness + (slight) high card value + (slight) connectedness = BTN open.

What a joke j7ss is the nuts when folded to the btn. You're going to flop gutters, pairs and bdfds to cbet. You'll turn gutters or fds to db and of course you can make quads with J7ss.

Fairly straightforward cbet fold against most. Only way cbet call can be good is if you know they are cray cray.

Dislike check for "balance". Win the pot. You're going to be cbetting this texture a ton

Johnny, this is true and a bit more direct than I was haha.

I didn't say I wouldn't raise it I just said it's not automatic and depends on a variety of factors.

Saying it has connectedness is a bit of a stretch considering our straight is absolutely destroyed by QJ.

Rethinking my OP. I had opened or raised EP limpers in a number of pots in mid to late position over the last couple of orbits including consecutive hands. C-bet probably 75% of them. Like I said, nothing outrageous but likely noticeable.

Does this change anything? Probably not enough info here really but villain had folded to a few of these and his c/r wasn't completely unexpected at the time.

There's no such thing as a c-bet in a multi-way pot; it simply does not exist. Even if you've seen or heard about it, in films or GEICO commercials. Not even if you have a plaster cast of its footprint.

"No one re-raised PF" is NOT a reason to bet OTF. They are two completely different streets, with two completely different strategies, as the game is played today, by the vast majority of players.

^ Fascinating. And nutritious.

right, but he's saying (correctly) that you should just open it every time

not really, it just has less connectedness than QJ. the consequences of making dominated straights are mitigated in a btn vs blind scenario anyway.

eh, maybe. i think the amount that people overweight recent aggression depends a lot on how you are perceived generally, which is something only you really know. i think people tend to look for information that confirms their prior beliefs - if they initially perceive someone to be a nit (old, mannerisms, etc), then they will probably not weight a small sample of recent aggression very heavily and assume he has gotten good cards, whereas they will much more quickly confirm a suspicion that a younger/hoodie/etc person is a LAG and will play back. really up to you to figure out what people presume about your play.

lol

also lol

It's actually very simple. In a multi-way pot, if the flop did not improve your hand, it probably improved someone else's. And that is the exact reason that they called; hoping to improve.