Keeping with the recent theme of making horrid lay downs..


AC night 1/2 $500 buy in short handed game

hero: been at table for 45 mins, getting pounded in the face by the deck, playing every hand, more than doubled, ~$1100

villain: old dude with a nice mustache. was at dinner, just came back and did not post, waited for his big blind. yet to play a hand ~$1250

so after his blind he folds five or six straight hands, now he's in the bb again, still has not played a hand while I'm at table, drinking Johnny Walker

hero raises 55 utg +1 to $12 folds to villain who flats from bb
(villain says he checks dark)

flop A98
hero checks back his dark check

turn 5
he leads $20, hero raises to $65, villain shoves for ~$1000 effective

hero hates folding but really is having a hard time calling it off. villain seems weak but it doesn't feel authentic, hero may or may not be paying to much attention to his mustache to make a correct decision. also folded (bad) the same bottom set of 5's ott around the holidays and still am painfully aware of it.

So are we gii here? what does an old man's check dark/lead/rip range look like?

I fold to the ridiculous overbet with no solid reads. Play a few more rounds with the guy before going for the jugular. I think he's got a ton of 88 and 99 in his range. AA is also possible. There's no flush draw. It's hard to imagine someone shoving a SD or 2 pair here. Hero raises pre and then raises the turn. That's pretty damn strong. Yet, V's still shoving?

I think it was Melanie Weisner who tweeted out something this week about not getting fancy with guys with mustaches. I forget the exact tweet.

If he's spaz shoving light once, he'll do it again. Fold here and put a bullseye on this guy.

Snap fold. Might even find a fold with AA so deep.

I'd like to see that tweet, seems like the best insight she's given in awhile.

does he check dark w/ 88-99 though? 67s?

that seems a bit excessive, I'm not sure if he even calls 67s and if he does, I doubt he checks dark.

I was a little off. I remembered the mustache part, but it doesn't exactly apply here. This is her tweet:

"Note to self: do not bluff anyone with a handlebar mustache" - Melanie Weisner

People who dark check tend to do it with pretty much their entire range, don't they? They plan on checking the flop if they hit or if they miss. They don't want to give any information away. I think that's the theory behind it. They plan to slowplay if they bink. They plan to c/f if they miss. I think PPs have to be a big part of all dark checkers' range.

in the past people always seemed to check dark w/ small pocket pairs, but that's now changed. a girl crushed me w/ A9s checked dark not to long ago and I never thought to include what she had, but yea

thanks for finding the tweet to, good looking out

I've never understood playing 1/2 super deep. Decisions get so much more difficult. Why not just go play a regular 2/5 game?

The turn card should have "show tunes playing in your head", yet here you are looking at a puke-fold. Holding the 5th nuts, you're literally bluff-catching.

Yes, it totally sucks. But with zero reads, you pretty much have to fold.

*Slow clap*

I've never been able to narrow a pf range by a dark check.

Gotta fold. V knows your mustache will never be as good as his mustache. If he is that reckless we will probably get his chips later anyway.

Let's start with the easy stuff. You need 47% equity to make the call profitable. To get there, he either needs to call pf with A8o or be willing to shove with a couple TPTK hands. I don't see a guy who waited for his blinds and then folded 5 hands in a row willing to gamble it up that much, especially against someone who's been on a heater.

I'd fold and be good with it.

+1 with everything said.

Also was it Johnny Walker black or blue?? More inclined to call if it was Johnny Walker blue (shows he doesn't mind throwing away money)....

genuine spot and i hate these. i think you're shown a bigger set very often.

I think he did you a favor with the super ridiculous overbet (presuming you folded).

This deep stacked short handed 1/2 business reminds me of how unfun small stakes online 6 max was.

a couple guys brought up the deep 1/2 as opposed to 2/5 game so I'll address it.

First I like playing deep, I hate 100bb poker as my decisions are often made for me by the turn/ there isn't enough river play where the pots are big and people make mistakes. which leads to why this is my game of choice the past year or so.

The field is comprised of all your regular 1/2 guys except their sitting way deeper than most are comfortable with. The mistakes are magnified. basically depending on how my session is going, I have the choice to play the game small like a 1/2 or I can blow up pots and play 2/5. it works for me as I open more than anyone at the table and my raise size becomes the default open size with in an hour or so.

but mainly I feel the deeper the stacks are the bigger edge I have because the game revolves around turn/river play (post flop) and most either fold to much or don't fold enough and are more easily exploited.

also with the exception of weekends in the 2/5 game 85% buy in for $500, while in the 1/2 the same 85% buy in $400-$500 everyday. there is the same amount of money on the table w/ lower blinds, I can be much more creative/play more hands etc and the hourly is inline w/ less variance. ( people fold more to protect their "deep stack" then they do at 100bb) and normally I know half the table regardless of stakes. If the 2/5 is better, Friday-Saturday nights, I play that.

I'd like to hear others opinions on why playing deep is sub optimal to 100bb's at the next rung up as I happen to disagree w/ this fairly adamantly. thanks

This.


BTW.... Do not be surprised when V has AA here.

This is a perfect flop to continuation bet with 55. The only hand I'm somewhat likely to play the way you're playing your hand is AA.

He's representing the nuts, and nothing but the nuts.

Ignore all the trolling "playing deep" comments. I'm cbetting this flop. now fold and feel good about it.

'note to self: don't get it in with guys with handlebar mustaches'
-interpret it how you want haha

If I flopped top set here I'd definitely lead the flop?

sure I can bet 55 on Axx heads up, but I don't think checking it back is a mistake at all.

I'm always calling one bet ott and then evaluating river. I may pick up a bluff or semi bluff bet that would have folded to a flop cbet, and when he has an A I'm probably losing less because my cbet "normally" will be sized bigger than his value bet ott. Also I have a chance to improve ott and possibly win a much nicer pot if he was "trapping" w / AK or Aces up or whatever.

I'm fine w/ my line, but his turn raise certainly put me in a gross spot. Wish I would have seen how he got $1200+ in front of him before this hand happened. is it possible he thinks AK is the nuts here?

Just to be clear, it was not a handle bar, that was from wisner's tweet.

villain rocked more of a unique combo style mixing the best of a saloon owner in the old west, super thick, yet impeccably groomed like a high end Mediterranean antique dealer.

a step above the many.

You should c-bet the flop.

I'd check back with hands like ~A2, KK and not 55.

You didn't lead the flop. The only hand I'd ever consider checking back on the flop and raising on the turn is AA.

If you think he's betting a hand without an ace on the turn, he's betting air so I wouldn't have raised. I don't understand the idea of calling a turn bet with 55 if you have one pair and raising if you have a set. One of those has to be wrong.

I mean, facing what turn card? Bet size?

Almost no turn card is good for you.

Including, apparently, 5's

Not c-betting flop with plan to pick off turn bets readless with 55 = meh imo.

You should just c-bet.