I said I would never fold KK pre.. 250 BB effective facing 5bet - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Id just shoved on him and if he's got AA then he's got AA, if not then ur in great shape to win a monster.

Don't think I could fold those KKs bc you do see alot of super aggro players making those same plays with QQs, JJs, AK even at times.

Also you never wanna think about "well Im in the game for this, and Im at that..." Just try to play your hand optimally at all times and let the chips fall where they may

This is advice on how to lose at LLSNL.

Facing a re-raise or re-re-raise from a tight patient player holding the 2nd nuts? Just jam it all in. If he has the nuts, too bad.

05-26-2012 , 09:06 PM

#27

tmckendry

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,205

Oh, KK is a fold preflop in this spot.

his 5bet range does not include semi-bluffs or QQ. It is exactly AA. He is not making a move. He haz the nuts.

05-26-2012 , 10:52 PM

#28

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

My 4-bet sizing:
I would usually make it $240-$280 here (maybe closer to $280 being out of position). I was not expecting him to fold ANY of his 3-betting range (given my image and the fact he had not played a hand in forever and he was IP).

However, a part of me wanted to know right then and there if he had AA. I felt like with a big 4-bet (to $300), he would only 5-bet me here with AA.

I felt like I would lose too much value flatting here OOP.

He kept insisting throughout the entire session he had QQ.
Either way, I think the poker gods rewarded me because after the fold I went on a mini-heater and won 140 BB.

05-27-2012 , 12:25 AM

#29

dgiharris

All Hail His Modness

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,292

When players insist that they had a lesser hand, they always had the nuts

05-27-2012 , 01:13 AM

#30

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgiharris

When players insist that they had a lesser hand, they always had the nuts

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
"if I had AA I would have taken your deal."
That's exactly what I would say if I had AA lol

05-27-2012 , 02:07 AM

#31

4 of a KINDBUD

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 313

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgiharris

If you notice players routinely 5-bet shoving $500 with JJ/QQ then I need to move to Jville, FL immediately.

You know, now that I seriously sit down and think about the ******ed 5bet all-in shoves i've witnessed, I think i've seen more AK and QQ shoves then I alluded to above, however, I can unequivocally say that I haven't seen enough for it to be profitable calling with KK.

Now, this is different than a 4bet shove. I think for 100bb, by the time someone 4bet shoves on you pre you are committed anyways and there is enough AK and QQ to call those 100bb 4bets.

However, a $500 5bet when 200bb deep is a completely different animal and the ONLY way I could even consider calling that would be if V was a super aggro ego maniac that shows his awesome bluffs 2 times per orbit...

Truth is, its just such a rare occurrence that i'd think nothing of folding KK in this spot.

This is one of those calls where you call and in your heart you know V is going to turn over AA and when he does, you aren't surprised...

p.s. I'm completely serious, if players in Jville, FL routinely 5bet with JJ/QQ I swear to god I'd jump on a plane next week...

Agreed on bolded section.

05-27-2012 , 02:09 AM

#32

4 of a KINDBUD

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 313

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyrico

I told myself I would never but I'm ok with it..

5/5 $300-500 buyin
Hero has been aggressive as usual, but today played a lot of pot control with 1pair hands OTT, still getting lots of value OTR

Hero opens $25 UTG+2, one call, BTN makes it $100, Hero makes it $300, 1 fold, BTN makes it $500 more ($800 total) with $450 behind. Hero covers.

I tank.. I say, I have kings, do you want to just throw $500 in the middle (the $800 total he made it) and check it down? He then turns to the tv and freezes. I tank, I say I've never folded kings before and I don't think I can fold, ask him a couple more times, no answer.

BTN is a reg, very patient. We were playing 3 handed earlier and while me and the other aggro kid's stacks were going through a roller coaster, he did not spew. Before the hand he was sitting at $1300 for 2 hours, card dead.

He claims to have had QQ, but idk if I believe him. He said "if I had aces I would've taken the deal" but I don't think I believe that either, because he's prob never expecting me to fold KK. The guy who folded behind me folded AK. Would he really be willing to risk $1300 with QQ? Idk

This probably shouldn't have factored into my decision, but it did: I was in the game for $1100 and was sitting at $2900 when the hand started. If I lose the hand I have $1600 left and its the end of my session (or I stay and tilt off my stack). The session before I lost $1850 and felt gross about it, so before the hand started I made that all back.

This is especially gross because I'm a super aggro young kid, so many villains will stack off to me with QQ or worse (I think).

Is no one factoring in this part of the equation?

05-27-2012 , 02:23 AM

#33

dgiharris

All Hail His Modness

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,292

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 of a KINDBUD

Is no one factoring in this part of the equation?

I'm not calling OP a liar, but I just think he is mistaken and falling prey to selective memory and wishful thinking.

There is only ONE reason why his villains would routinely 5bet him for $500 with QQ...

and that would be if V ROUTINELY 4bets with JJ, AK, AQ type hands and the table SEES that he has 4bet with JJ, AK, AQ. So, its not just a matter of OP being some aggro young punk internet kid, OP would have to come across as a super huge aggro donk in order for villains to "routinely" 5bet him $500 with QQ...

And I seriously doubt this is the case.

I know we all like to think we are super sick poker pros that can induce V's to spazz out against us by giving them the poker stare and shuffling chips, but that is rarely the case.

I play deep stack all the time and I just rarely if ever see a 5bet for $500 with QQ. Just doesn't happen unless we've got a super aggro ego maniac leveling war going on between two V's that hate each other and love nothing more than showing each other sick bluffs. And that isn't the case here, not by a mile...

05-27-2012 , 02:25 AM

#34

4 of a KINDBUD

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 313

^^^ I LOLd at just the way you put it above and agree

05-27-2012 , 03:02 AM

#35

dgiharris

All Hail His Modness

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,292

Correction:

Quote:

and that would be if V ROUTINELY 4bets with JJ, AK, AQ type hands and the table SEES that he has 4bet with JJ, AK, AQ.

Should be

Quote:

and that would be if Hero ROUTINELY 4bets with JJ, AK, AQ type hands and the table SEES that he has 4bet with JJ, AK, AQ.

05-27-2012 , 04:31 AM

#36

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

Crazy how I'm hearing "easy fold" it's the second nuts! It was actually physically difficult pushing the hand towards the dealer.
After the hand I said "that's the first and only time I'm folding kings preflop"

05-27-2012 , 09:49 AM

#37

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyrico

keep your mouth shut in that spot.

05-27-2012 , 10:05 AM

#38

Crystal ExtacY

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,346

i think this is AA alot more then QQ unless you and villian have had lots of history, his hand is so face up.

btw i dont think you should let villain know how good your skills are that youre folding the second best hand pre. jus sayin. if you think he has it, then just muck and stay quite.

you deff dont want to let the table know your folding a hand that some people will never come close to folding.

05-27-2012 , 02:06 PM

#39

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal ExtacY

A few hours later I folded 7d4d to a donk's instashove OTR on a 7x5d9d Kx 8d board. His showed 68o (lol) and I was just shocked I thought for sure he had a K high flush the way the action went. I said I folded a flush and some people were shocked lol

05-27-2012 , 03:33 PM

#40

dgiharris

All Hail His Modness

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,292

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyrico

A few hours later I folded 7d4d to a donk's instashove OTR on a 7x5d9d Kx 8d board. His showed 68o (lol) and I was just shocked I thought for sure he had a K high flush the way the action went. I said I folded a flush and some people were shocked lol

Folding strong hands to DONK'S is LOSING POKER.

Seriously, never ever try to soul read a donk because well ummm.... THEY ARE DONKS!!!!!

Donks are impossible to soul read for strong hands because they shove scary boards with such a wide range of lesser hands that it is just not profitable folding to them.

And FFS stop telling the table what you folded!

05-28-2012 , 06:56 PM

#41

boyrico

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 670

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgiharris

Limp pot I'm in CO 74dd. 5-way

Flop 7x 9d 5d. Checks to me I bet $25. BB calls, donk calls in MP.
Turn Kx. Donk leads $60. 2 calls.
River 8d. Donk TURBO shoves $225.

How often is my 7-high flush good here?

05-28-2012 , 07:46 PM

#42

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,974

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyrico

TTHRIC

Locked.

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Closed Thread Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last