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04-29-2015 , 01:06 PM

Boilerdan

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 116

I need help. Was involved in a big pot.

Playing 1/2 at Caesers. My stack approx 400. I'm the sb.

There's a raise to the standard $12. Two people call. I have 5h6h. I call. Bb calls.

5 players see an As3h4h flop.

How does one play a huge draw like mine.

I lead out for $25. Bb call, utg raise all in to $130. I call. Bb shoves for total of 250. Am I happy to get it in?

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04-29-2015 , 01:15 PM

ChipRunner

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31

Without knowing the stack sizes and player reads, I like check raising and getting it in on this board better. By cr, you have more FE against Ax. As played I guess I call because it's 120 more into a pot of (130 + 130 + 250 + 60 =) 570 because i have nut outs and am doing well even against a set

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04-29-2015 , 01:16 PM

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

This requires very little research on your part to get the answer. Download a version of poker stove and calculate your odds. If you are going to play 56s you need to have some idea of how to play it. It really doesn't get more obvious than this, yes you are happy to get it in on this flop. Your are a favorite vs 1 pair type hands and you are only a slight doc vs sets and 2 pair.

Next time you play suited connectors consider everything. Stack depth, the players, your skill level, your position at the table(button, UTG etc). this wasn't meant to be mean, only to make you think.

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04-29-2015 , 01:21 PM

KCYoung

adept

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 917

I am worried about one of them having an AhXh hand, top pair with nut flush draw, but I am not getting away from it now with the pot and your hand I don't think. I would've liked a check raise more as well instead of leading out into the raiser though.

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04-29-2015 , 01:29 PM

Boilerdan

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 116

Thanks guys. My doubt is my first action post flop. I like the CR school of thought. Turns out I was up against A4 and A7h. So even less outs than anticipated.

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04-29-2015 , 01:33 PM

sierradave

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 920

Yeah, you aren't happy to gii here -- strong chance that your flush outs are no good -- but you also aren't folding at this point, getting nearly 5-to-1.

Barring very specific reads, I hate your donk bet on the flop though. It isn't going to fold decent aces. It probably isn't going to fold better flush draws. Your hand has a lot of equity, but it's also reasonably well disguised. I'd much rather check/raise as a semibluff.

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04-29-2015 , 01:50 PM

ChipRunner

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 31

Yeah when getting almost 5:1, you have to call with 8 nut outs twice.

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04-29-2015 , 02:04 PM

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Fold pre. Small suited connectors suck OOP in LLSNL. There has to be some FE to play these types of hands and most $1/2 games lack fold equity. I'd prefer to play them IP and when I know players can fold a hand.

If you're going to play this, a x/c or x/c should be the line, depending on how nitty your opponents play. In a vacuum at $1/2, I am x/c.

Like sierradave said, you gotta call getting a good price. The downside is you're sometimes drawing dead to a better flush draw AND if someone has a set you're up against re-draws if you do make your hand.

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04-29-2015 , 02:14 PM

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

You have to shove and hope UTG does not have AA and he may fold AK/AQ. It increases your equity greaty against KQhh type hands.

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04-29-2015 , 02:27 PM

#10

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

I can donk, but I would rather hide my 'monster' and 'create position' by checking this Flop. It's about as good as we can expect, but we really have nothing.

We can create a bunch of FE here by c/shove, but have to realize that we are going to get called quite often. I go with the c/c until I actually have a hand .. and then I still might end up folding to aggression if flush hits. GL

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04-29-2015 , 02:49 PM

#11

matzah_ball

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

You just c/c with a straight flush draw...?

C/r is best. You flopped a monster. Results suck.

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04-29-2015 , 02:54 PM

#12

pologuy64

adept

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,124

I don't mind the donk bet at all...

Now that the hand has went down as played, I would re-ship the flop...

Hand plays standard...

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04-29-2015 , 03:17 PM

#13

battagd1

adept

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 745

I check flop as your draw isn't as much of a monster draw as you think. Most flush draws beat you, you are really drawing to a straight only (no flush) when you have two allins.

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04-29-2015 , 03:56 PM

#14

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

There's a good thread about playing big draws: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...draws-1159866/

I would have folded, or raised, pre.

I would have checked flop.

I would only raise flop if I thought I had good fold equity; just like any other bluff. In my opinion bluffing based on your cards, rather than having good fold equity is pretty silly.

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04-29-2015 , 04:07 PM

#15

answer20

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 10,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by matzah_ball

You just c/c with a straight flush draw...?

C/r is best. You flopped a monster. Results suck.

I should've clarified a bit more but had to post and go. If, after we check, there is a bet and 2 callers I am going to check/flat, yes .. we may be down to just 8 outs.

If there is a bet and all folds back to us, then we c/r all day and run it or take it with some good FE.

I am trying not to let me current streak of 0 for 14 deter me from making the right play here. Yes, I am 0 for my last 14 OESFD when all-in OTF .. no strts .. no flushes .. no runner runner trips ... no results. GL

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04-29-2015 , 04:46 PM

#16

Boilerdan

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

Thanks!

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04-29-2015 , 05:00 PM

#17

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

Quote:

Originally Posted by answer20

Is this for reals? I wonder what the odds are of missing he OESFD 14 times is. Seems a bit over the top considering how math mathematically unlikely this is.

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04-30-2015 , 01:46 PM

#18

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed

Is this for reals? I wonder what the odds are of missing he OESFD 14 times is. Seems a bit over the top considering how math mathematically unlikely this is.

About 6 in 1 million. He should play the lottery more.

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04-30-2015 , 03:47 PM

#19

ShowdownValue

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 413

As played, get it in, but don't love it. A check/raise on the flop is likely better, as others have stated. It generates fold equity that surely would make that play uber profitable.

Check/calling this flop is pretty much AIDS. You have the nut low flush draw (yes, I know we have a straight flush draw but most hearts only leave us with the smallest flush possible), OESD, and all kinds of dead money in the pot (If we had checked the flop). Going multiway to the turn is not good if we can avoid it.

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04-30-2015 , 03:59 PM

#20

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShowdownValue

I'm not saying it's the wrong play, but check/shoving on an A-high board for 125 BB effective in a single-raised pot seems....rash.

Let's say we check and a field player bets $40-45 with an Ace. We jam for whatever the effective stack is. Let's say its $250 based on the HH. It's 1.6-1 to call. How many LLSNL players are folding topsies in this spot? I'd argue not many. Of course, it's read-dependent. But jamming 6-high with little fold equity seems a bit spewey.

Like I said in my initial reply: fold preflop.

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04-30-2015 , 04:29 PM

#21

Boilerdan

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie

Let's say we check and a field player bets $40-45 with an Ace. We jam for whatever the effective stack is. Let's say its $250 based on the HH. It's 1.6-1 to call. How many LLSNL players are folding topsies in this spot? I'd argue not many. Of course, it's read-dependent. But jamming 6-high with little fold equity seems a bit spewey.

Like I said in my initial reply: fold preflop.

It's pretty hard to get stacks in after the draw hits. As soon as a third if a suit turns/rivers. Many 1/2 players shut down.

I usually like to be the aggressor with these draws.

But. I completely agree with you. Playing draw-y hands out if position makes it that much harder to play/get paid.

Consider it folded in the future.

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04-30-2015 , 05:01 PM

#22

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerdan

Yep, nail meet head.

That said, all situations aren't equal. If your opponents are super face-up and you've got control of them, calling with SC's in the blinds can be okay. My default is to fold them to an opener if I'm not comfortable with my reads.

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04-30-2015 , 05:12 PM

#23

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

This is not a very good hand pre 5 ways OOP.

Once you flop that, the hand just plays itself especially once you call the $130

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05-01-2015 , 01:24 AM

#24

Tiltbox5000

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 150

100 percent checking, and then probably shoving over the top of any action without a free turn card, or any action that doesn't give me amazing odds to call. We can easily get any non two pair ace to fold, we are +EV in 3 way action as long as none of our opponents have two hearts.

Remember, 3 way all in (with similar stacks or when covered) we are +EV vs set over set or set vs two pair.

This line also should have some fold equity. I would expect AQ, AJ and A10 to fold, and even some AK/bottom two pair hands to fold.

I have a tough time imagining scenarios where this line isn't +EV long term.