Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
How to Stack 2 Villains? How to Stack 2 Villains?

04-01-2012 , 07:49 AM
so game is 5/10 commerce and i want to figure out the best way to stack these two villains w/ this hand.

utg tight solid w/ 2.5k raises 35 i call nxt w/ 33. btn is bad rec player w/ 1k stack he calls. sb thinks and makes it 150 he has 2k. sb is a 50 yr old rec player who is def a spot but mostly due to his passiveness. utg calls i call btn calls we see flop 4 ways.

flop 236 w/ two diamonds
sb 3better checks, utg orig raiser cks, i bet 300 btn cold calls pretty quickly.
now sb 3better makes it 700 total... utg folds and its back to me.

how do i stack them both?
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:06 AM
arr in
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 09:26 AM
Shove. Sb already put in nearly half stack and button has an all in decision at 70% of his stack regardless of what you do. Flatting could kill your action vs sb if a scare card comes so slow playing this board may make you the least amount of money here.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 12:26 PM
easiest jam ever?

I fold pre though
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 01:33 PM
Bet more on the flop.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
easiest jam ever?

I fold pre though
You're going to see a flop multi way with deep stacks. Why fold pre? Seems like the best case scenario for playing this hand. Super easy to play post.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 08:53 PM
I think it's close between flat and jam, but I'm leaning towards jam since there are a reasonable amount of turns that could potentially kill our action.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-01-2012 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAismyfriend
I think it's close between flat and jam, but I'm leaning towards jam since there are a reasonable amount of turns that could potentially kill our action.
If I flat doesn't mean we see a turn necessarily. Action will be over to btn he might do something stupid and sb might think he's good cause my hand looks like a draw if I flat so he might do all the work for me?
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin58
You're going to see a flop multi way with deep stacks. Why fold pre? Seems like the best case scenario for playing this hand. Super easy to play post.
"Super easy to play" doesn't mean +EV.

Playing a baby pair in EP without initiative doesn't seem like a +EV situation to me. The pot will get re-raised behind you a decent amount, and in any case it's nearly impossible to win the pot without a set (which may still get oversetted). Factoring all of that the first call is probably -EV.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
"Super easy to play" doesn't mean +EV.

Playing a baby pair in EP without initiative doesn't seem like a +EV situation to me. The pot will get re-raised behind you a decent amount, and in any case it's nearly impossible to win the pot without a set (which may still get oversetted). Factoring all of that the first call is probably -EV.
yes it does play bad against good opponents who 3 bet wide 100bb deep.

I never ever fold a small pocket pair 250bb deep vs a tight 3 bet range , which is kk, aa 99% of the time agaisnt a passive fish. who will stack off every time.
its a huge mistake to fold 33 here vs a tight passive fish at 100bb+
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstevens
If I flat doesn't mean we see a turn necessarily. Action will be over to btn he might do something stupid and sb might think he's good cause my hand looks like a draw if I flat so he might do all the work for me?
This has a very low chance of happening.

Button already only has $550 left so if you flat and btn flats the button is effectively already all-in. Flatting vs all-in doesnt make a difference for button, but it does make a difference vs SB. Shoving gets you all of SB's money.

If you think SB might fold AA if you shove, you can also reraise something silly. Make it 1350 or something to shove the turn, in which case it'll be 1000 left on the turn into a 3500 pot.

Shove is fine. raise is fine. flat is worst. actually, you wouldn't even get to reraise if you flat and button shoves.

edit - also, fold pre vs call pre is a nitpicky topic imo, theres not THAT much difference in EV, if calling is -EV its only by a little bit. (i prefer to fold, but if sb is bad enough to only have QQ+, calling is fine imo)
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
"Super easy to play" doesn't mean +EV.

Playing a baby pair in EP without initiative doesn't seem like a +EV situation to me. The pot will get re-raised behind you a decent amount, and in any case it's nearly impossible to win the pot without a set (which may still get oversetted). Factoring all of that the first call is probably -EV.
maybe against competent opponents. it's def ++EV against live players. in fact, pocket pairs are awesome against bad players. think of all the fish who will call after you first call with J7s and the likes because of pot odds. furthermore, no one is going to be 3betting the utg light

op, i'm in the shove camp. flatting looks just as strong
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
"Super easy to play" doesn't mean +EV.

Playing a baby pair in EP without initiative doesn't seem like a +EV situation to me. The pot will get re-raised behind you a decent amount, and in any case it's nearly impossible to win the pot without a set (which may still get oversetted). Factoring all of that the first call is probably -EV.
Yeah I guess I'll agree to disagree here. Majority of the time you're not going to get 3 bet (if dynamic of the table is super aggro or you have reason to believe you'll be 3 bet you can fold). If you're not calling w/ 33 here what are you calling with? Are you only 3 bet/folding from UTG+2? Are you calling w/ 88/99? If so what's the difference vs a tight open and active 3 betters? 250bb deep you should be playing these small pairs IMO especially vs. a player with a tight opening range such as in the OP's description. If he has a stack that's 50bb or so I can see folding. To worry about set over set is a little paranoid IMO since that occurrence is super rare.
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote
04-02-2012 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
"Super easy to play" doesn't mean +EV.

Playing a baby pair in EP without initiative doesn't seem like a +EV situation to me. The pot will get re-raised behind you a decent amount, and in any case it's nearly impossible to win the pot without a set (which may still get oversetted). Factoring all of that the first call is probably -EV.
I think if the table is super aggressive their may be an argument, but a table where 3bs are going to be real strong from live regs I cant imagine not showing profit.....
How to Stack 2 Villains? Quote

      
m