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How Spazztastic was this? How Spazztastic was this?

02-12-2015 , 11:07 AM
I think I played a decent session last night, but this was one hand I think I misplayed pretty badly. Thoughts on all streets please.

Hero ($400) - 30 year old white guy. Room regular. I've been sitting for about 2 hours at this point and have a bit over $400. Have only shown down AA once and AQ once. Everything else has been standard raise in position/c-bet type stuff. I have 3!'d once from the button with TT and took it down on the flop after 2 callers.

V1 ($300) - 30s White guy. Another room regular. I've played with him before and he's fairly ABC. He is capable of letting TPTK hands go on the flop and can hand read fairly well.

V2 ($250)- 40's Asian guy. Has been constantly limping in and playing fit or fold style. He isn't a total drooler, and I don't see him showing down 93o type hands or anything like that. Seems to bet when he has it and check/fold when he doesn't.

1/2 NL - 300 Max

UTG straddles to $4, UTG+1 calls, V2 calls, V1 Raises to $15 in the HJ, Hero calls on the button with AT, UTG, UTG+1, V2 all call.

Pot: $75 Flop: A57
Three checks to V1 who bets $40, Hero raises to $125, UTG and UTG+1 fold, V2 calls, V1 folds.

Pot: $365 Turn: 2
V2 Checks, Hero ?

I think I got a little to spazzy on the flop, but not really sure. I thought V1's flop bet seemed a little weak as he knows enough to bet more on a flop like this if he had a hand he thought was best that he wanted to get value from. I think the raise gets him to lay down the majority of the Ax hands he's raising except for AA and maybe AK as well as hands. If I have the best hand then I want to protect it and charge any of the others in the hand behind me that may be drawing on this semi wet flop. Thoughts on this thought process?
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02-12-2015 , 11:14 AM
With the amount V2 has left I am just putting it in. He should have enough draws in his range to make this okay given how much is already in there.

It is not the best spot in the world but flatting the flop sucks too.

I sort of think 3! pre might make the hand easier to play because five ways we are basically looking to flop a flush/straight/two pair to feel comfortable.
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02-12-2015 , 11:35 AM
All depends on villain.. From your description it seems like he has AJ+. Since Ace of clubs is already on the board, its highly unlikely he has a flush draw. If the table is weak, I would just check it down to SD if possible and get money from other weak players.. If u think, he will fold if u shove, then shove... Flop raise put u in awkward spot. Lot depends on perceived images of both.
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02-12-2015 , 11:37 AM
Super spaz on the flop. Just call. V1 has already charged the draws for you! You don't need to 'protect' your hand and a raise screams weak ace. An ABC player won't raise preflop with an A worse than AT into a straddle and 2 EP callers. After calling on the flop, reevaluate on the turn. I would bet if villains check the turn. I might raise if villains bet the turn or fold if I think they have a better A.

As played, you almost have to check the turn. V2's cold call should terrify you. I think you have about zero fold equity against better aces after the blankest of blanks on the turn. The villain can correctly call with all draws since he only has $100 left. Check and hope for a check down. If V2 bets the river, I'd fold if a draw hits and call if it's another blank. I'm never valuebetting the river if V2 checks.

Last edited by Nice_Guy_Eddie; 02-12-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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02-12-2015 , 11:44 AM
I like a 3 bet pre against an ABC player. Or, even though it sounds nitty, you can justify a fold pre to a $15 raise if V1s range is solid, and table is limp/calling like crazy, as actually happened here, so you don't end up in ugly spots like this.

No good reason to raise the flop. Now you are pot committed against V2 who is never folding, and almost certainly has you beat. Ugh.

I guess check behind on the turn, and sigh fold when V2 ships the river. Even for his last $100, you don't beat anything after he limp calls your raise. The whole thing is gross.
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02-12-2015 , 11:50 AM
What's the proper line if Hero flats 55 or 77 OTB preflop?
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02-12-2015 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgalosk
What's the proper line if Hero flats 55 or 77 OTB preflop?
You took a great line pre and post if you had 55 or 77.
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02-12-2015 , 12:15 PM
I'm not sure what the plan for the hand is flatting AT pre-flop against a solid ABC player. A typical ABC reg's pf raising range crushes AT.

Most of the time, ATs is going to completely miss the flop. When it does flop a pair (like this hand), you never know if it's good. You're plan was to raise him off of his ace if an ace come on the flop because he's capable of folding TP hands?

I can't think of any regs where my plan would be to call with a worse ace, flop an ace, and then try to get him off of AK/AQ with a big raise. If that's the plan, than ATC will do.
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02-12-2015 , 12:17 PM
Grunch:

I lean towards a fold pre, but if Villain can fold a hand, I'm ok with playing in position. Flop is a flat. I'm not thrilled with V betting into the world but it's weak enough that we can take it away on the turn. A raise only gets called by better and folds out most, if not all of his range. V2's overcall is a bit worrying but the flop is wet enough where there's a fair amount of draws and pair + draw type hands. The turn is pretty well a blank so at this point I GII given stack sizes.
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02-12-2015 , 12:49 PM
Not too, as long as you didn't bet the river.

This is how you go after a tight player. Ace-anything is a good hand to bluff raise with, although for Pete's sake you have to actually raise it pre.

You absolutely have to isolate the tight player, preferably pre. AP the flop raise was mandatory.

OTT you're probably beat, check it down and hope for the best.

You sort of have the concept. Go back and read "playing the player" again, you're real close

ETA

The line i describe is correct against a TAG player but I do not personally find it to be unequivocally profitable at 1/2. Too hard to isolate. And even people who know how to fold don't do it enough to satisfy me. I don't typically target the TAGs at the table. I will take a swipe at them if the perfect opportunity arises. If villain understands position, this ain't it

Last edited by AbqDave; 02-12-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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02-12-2015 , 01:37 PM
PF: Fold or 3B, unless we know that the table is very passive and the remaining (5) players left to act are going to call. When we call do we know that we are playing this hand to flop a flush draw? I just don't like calling with a hand like AhTh against an "ABC player" who is raising a straddle.

F: Effective stacks are $250 and $300. SPR is 3.3 and 4. We flop TPWK and a backdoor flush draw. V1 continues with a half pot bet. This is why I don't like to play AT in this spot. V1 could easily have AK, AQ, or AJ. So why are we raising? For value, I guess. I'm not sure I want to bloat the pot here. A call in position is much better. When V2 calls, I'm say "Uh, Oh", I must be dominated. I'm also asking myself, if I can represent a hand like KcQc or QcJc if the club comes on the turn; does villain think I would call with hands like this to his PF raise IP.

T: So now the pot is $365 and villain has $110 left. Our raise put half the effective stack of villain into the pot; we should of know that when we raised. Even against V1, our raise would of put half the effective stack in the pot.

As played, from here the hand pretty much plays itself. The 2d doesn't really do much.

You said he played fit/fold and he stuck around after your raise, so this board "fits" his hand. I bet $110 hear and hope he's got a weaker Ace or a club draw.

Note: You said you wanted to protect your hand from the club draw on the flop. I understand you want to protect your hand from the club draw, but raising bloats the pot to where you are committed with TPWK. There is an 18% chance that a club comes on the next card.

Edit: I am no expert, so after reading the other posts, I agree it is better to check the turn and hope to check it down. If we check the turn, and he bets the rest of his stack on the river, then we must know we are beat (Even though we are getting 4.3:1). Most 1/2 players are not donking in this situation with a busted flush draw. We do this even though we bloated the pot and half the effective stack is in the pot.

Last edited by Below Zero; 02-12-2015 at 01:51 PM.
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