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How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player?

01-31-2015 , 07:41 AM
I ran into a situation where against most players, I likely fold, but against this guy I was considering calling. The problem was that I only saw him play 1/2 of a hand.

$1/2

Hero - Just sat down.

V - 25 y/o Asian guy that doesn't speak English. The first hand I sat down on, I just saw the turn and river action. Asian guy bet $100 into a $60 pot ln the turn. Other V went all-in for $180 total. Asian guy called. Board was 862A rainbow when the $ went in. Asian guy had 96o. Other guy had pocket tens. Neither was a blind.

I don't know if these guys have been in some kind of leveling war. I have no idea what the history is. I don't know if one (or both) of them are complete donkeys. That's all I saw. I just saw a lot of money go in with pretty bad hands.

Then, this hand took place

$200 effective stacks.

Pre-flop
Hero raises to $10 from EP with QQ
V calls on the button.
Irrelevant V calls in the SB

Flop $27
977
Hero bets $20
V calls
Irrelevant V folds

Turn $65
Hero bets $45
V raises to $120 total (leaving about $50 behind)

Hero?
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 08:34 AM
gotta luv/hate these bizarre spots,
ur obv ahead of his range if he really just got 100bb in with bottom pair.

gotta get it in almost regardless of what turn is imo and it obi sux to put in ur whole stack on second hand u get to casino but even if u don't have rebuys it seem like u gotta go with it,
he prob plays baccarat or pigaue
(aisan smiley face)
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 10:54 AM
Preflop, at most 1/2 tables I'm going more then $10 in EP. Given the action you saw in the first hand, I'm going $15/$20. After that, given your limited information I don't think I could fold an over pair in this situation but I would be hating the situation.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player?
Right here.
Quote:
25 y/o Asian guy that doesn't speak English.
Spoiler:
in before racist ban


As others have said, make it bigger pre for fat value.

Lot's of 1/2 Vs get super sticky on paired boards, because "I don't believe that you have a 7." Even against a V not know to be crazy, I'd put A9, TT, JJ in their ranges, along with hands that beat you. Given the action we saw last hand, 9X, 88, and maybe pps<7 are in this guy's range too.

GII.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 01:21 PM
The other key data point is that second villain in hand 1 put his money in with pocket tens with an ace on the board. LLSNL players generally don't do that unless up against a maniac. In this situation, that's enough info for me to say GII is a +EV play.

The thing is that most of the time people like this don't last long at the table. They'll bust out quickly or occasionally build a big stack. You aren't going to get a lot of time to study him.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 04:24 PM
100bb against a probable donkey. It's fold or jam and I can be a little spewy at 1/2. I jam and say nice hand if he's got it. BUT, I'd bet more Pf, bigger OTF, and bigger OTT.
~15 PF
~35 OTF if it's the same 3 way action H got w raise to ten, maybe slightly less if HU
~75 OTT
Bigger bet sizing removes Vs incentive to check raise bluff bc he has less FE and also means I don't have to overthink this situation and I can snap call the raise and expect to win 50%+ of the time.
Over pair, raised pot, against a possible donkey and I start the hand w 100bb? Chips are going in.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
The other key data point is that second villain in hand 1 put his money in with pocket tens with an ace on the board. LLSNL players generally don't do that unless up against a maniac. In this situation, that's enough info for me to say GII is a +EV play.

The thing is that most of the time people like this don't last long at the table. They'll bust out quickly or occasionally build a big stack. You aren't going to get a lot of time to study him.
This is a really good point. That other player either knows this guy is a maniac, or he's just a maniac station himself. Chances are this other player has a better read on this guy, so we can trust it and gii here expecting him to show up with any PP.

If the other player was someone who we respect, we would trust the read even more.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 07:04 PM
Arr in.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
01-31-2015 , 10:53 PM
I rely on profiling people based on hands that get shown down, so I hate being at a table where hands almost never get to the river.

This early in a session, I honestly would have considered checking the turn in this hand as a combination of inducing a bluff and getting my opponent to show his hand.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
02-01-2015 , 03:10 AM
Im no pro. I dont get reads on most players other than general styles. Ive been playing for months with people and I cant "put them on a hand"
So I dont adjust my game too much vs relative unknowns.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
02-01-2015 , 10:15 AM
I was thinking of this hand from a few months ago when I made the OP.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...shove-1478473/

Cliff notes. I saw 1/2 of hand as I sat down. V put in a crazy in amount of money with KJ (just top pair) against two villains including a river shove. I stacked off on my first hand with AK on a Q72K2 board based on the assumption that he overplays top pair hands. I lost $300 to a 2 pair hand.

As far as the OP here goes, I folded. V didn't show. Two regs who had been playing all day said it was a good fold. One of them knew I had QQ even though I didn't show. V went on to play completely insane against that one V from the 1/2 hand history. He played pretty straightforward against the rest of the table. He racked up about an hour later after playing pretty nitty.

For the next month, I don't think I'm going to play a pot without the nuts for one orbit. I just hate these types of spots.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
02-01-2015 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volcano41
Im no pro. I dont get reads on most players other than general styles. Ive been playing for months with people and I cant "put them on a hand"
So I dont adjust my game too much vs relative unknowns.
Don't put them on a hand. Put them on a range of hands that they would likely play that way. As you get better, the ranging should improve. You'll learn "Bob would never raise there with a bare FD, he has a pair or a SD to go with it if he has a FD." Guess what, you just narrowed his range by about half the combos you had in there before.

Quote:
I stacked off on my first hand with AK on a Q72K2 board based on the assumption that he overplays top pair hands. I lost $300 to a 2 pair hand.
But your read may well have been right! just because he happened to have 2-pair that time, doesn't mean that he wouldn't have stacked off without it.

Last edited by Garick; 02-01-2015 at 07:49 PM.
How Quickly Do You Form A Read On A Player? Quote
02-01-2015 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
I saw 1/2 of hand as I sat down. V put in a crazy in amount of money with KJ (just top pair) against two villains including a river shove. I stacked off on my first hand with AK on a Q72K2 board based on the assumption that he overplays top pair hands. I lost $300 to a 2 pair hand.
This hand is a better situation for you. The middle paired board looks much safer then one headed KQ, there are more worse hands that will stack off. The play in that hand makes your cards look like AK and villain still put you in on river, while your play in this hand could be weaker hands or even a double barrel with two over cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
For the next month, I don't think I'm going to play a pot without the nuts for one orbit. I just hate these types of spots.
They are good spots to hate. Playing for stacks with almost no information is always tough. I do play tighter preflop and on flop vs unknown villains. I'm more inclined to give up marginal hands, I raise bigger preflop. In this case, I'm still calling though I don't like it.
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