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How to play Bottom pair with flush draw How to play Bottom pair with flush draw

10-02-2021 , 09:04 AM
£1 £1 live cash game
Villain seem to be inexperienced recreational player with stack of 300.
Hero has been aggressive player and raised many hands pre flop. Hero has stack of 350

Hero has 6c4c on sb.

Utg raised to £6, villain called in mid position, button called, hero called £6 on sb, bb also called. 5 players into the flop.

Flop 6d8cAc.

Utg checks. Villain bet £10, button called £10
Hero has bottom pair with flush draw. I wanted to force a weak Ace off the pot and disguise my had when I hit flush or a 6. Hero raised to 40. Villain called, and button folds.

Turn. Jd
Nothing changed. I feel villain might have higher flush draw or a strong A. Hero check. Villain bet £50

Hero called £50.

River Qc
Now hero hit flush. The turn bet made hero think villain might have strong A or two pair, not a flush draw, so hero’s hand should be good here. Hero bet 80, villain tank called with 7c5c with a higher flush.

Did hero make mistake?

Please help to analyze the hand. Many thanks,

Last edited by Yanguk; 10-02-2021 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Mod removed results
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-02-2021 , 09:15 AM
Snap fold pre from SB. Really bad to call here when BB is still left to act behind and may put in a squeeze — you aren’t even guaranteed to see a flop with a really marginal hand.
This is even a fold pre from the BB. This hand just doesn’t play well from OOP at all.

Rest of hand was played fine.

Last edited by venice10; 10-02-2021 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Removed results
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-02-2021 , 09:37 AM
Hi, welcome to the forum. I've removed the results since they tend to bias the answers you get.

This is a fold pf. IO hands pay off better when you are in position, not out of position. If you hit the flush, nobody is going to pay you off with a worse hand.

Your call on the turn tells the villain you have a FD. If he has a strong Ace or 2 pair, why would he pay you off on the river. Check.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-02-2021 , 10:05 AM
thanks for the comments. I didn't know that I am supposed to hide the hands villain has. I learned the lesson not to call a raise with such a weak hand on sb.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-02-2021 , 12:42 PM
I don't have a huge problem with the call preflop, ... small problem only. However, it's not for the flush possibilities of winning a big pot. While your absolute position sucks, your relative position to the preflop raiser is pretty good, though it will probably only apply on the flop.

Hands like this require some post-flop skills like hand reading, knowing how your villains are playing, what their current state of mind likely is and what your table image is in the mind of each opponent.

What you're looking for is two-pair, a straight, trips, or a chance to bluff successfully. Until you develop this kind of situational awareness and cal play XXo, just fold crap like that out-of-position. Also, you want stacks to be very deep, as you'll fold most of the time, though 300bb should be enough.

Many years ago, one of the TV pros (Antonio Esfandiari, I think), said: "However important you think position is in a poker game, it's way more important than that!"

And I think that slightly understates the point.

TLDR; Don't!
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-03-2021 , 12:40 AM
Preflop is terrible, mandatory fold

As played your postflop line is pretty exploitative but I kind of like it (I think every street options are close, flop xc/xr both fine, turn bet/xc/xr all fine, river lead or xc both fine)

So I think you should put more work on thinking about preflop incentives, and postflop you seem fine here and thoughtful in why youre doing things
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-03-2021 , 07:08 PM
Grunching ...

I'd fold pre primarily because suited gapper calls are usually not profitable long-term in a raised pot OOP.

Flop - call; ambitious to think a raise will get AX to fold.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-10-2021 , 04:12 PM
Definitely Fold - Pre.

Apparently I am the only one to think that the turn play is bad.

Going into check/call mode on the turn is the nut low. I'd much rather see either a full triple barrel or check fold. You aren't getting immediate odds to call, and have significant RIO odds as well as it is easy for your 2-pari outs to be no good, and even flush outs at times as well are bad.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-10-2021 , 11:46 PM
64s is a definite fold pre, it's just not going to flop well most of the time and it's going to be very difficult to get value from oop. If I was going to play it from the SB, I'd be 3 betting expecting to take the pot down pre most of the time.

I also don't like the turn check. We had initiative and decided to just let V realize their equity for free. With V's exact holding he's never folding, but I think if we're going to raise flop we need to continue on the turn.

River lead is fine and the fact that V showed up with a slightly higher flush is just kind of a mini cooler.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote
10-14-2021 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aftrglw
I also don't like the turn check. We had initiative and decided to just let V realize their equity for free. With V's exact holding he's never folding, but I think if we're going to raise flop we need to continue on the turn.
This is the most important point of the hand. Once you c/r the flop you're committing to play this hand aggressively. Villain flats pre and then weakly leads the flop on a wet board. You correctly put him on a range of weak Ace but he could also be getting sticky with 8x or maybe even 99/TT that he was too scared to 3 bet given your rec player read. I think you've gotta put him to the test here and bomb the turn and river. Your hand range can include any set and loads of 2 pairs. The flop is so draw heavy that once he calls the flop he is effectively capping his range at 1 pair hands and draws. You need to exploit this and move him off these hands

Also flop c/r needs to be bigger, maybe $50. I would then bet somewhere around $75 on the turn. This sets up the threat of river shove which should move him off of a 1 pair hand. Don't forget that even if he calls you still have a ton of equity here as your pair outs might be good as well as your flush outs.
How to play Bottom pair with flush draw Quote

      
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