Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
How to play against annoying short stacks How to play against annoying short stacks

02-26-2016 , 01:17 AM
Often in my 2/3/5 games there are short stackers with 200-350 chips. Some of them like to open big and bet big on the flop. It's hard to play against them without big cards. At the same time, there are normal or deep stack players at the table which makes our hand selection pretty difficult. Here I give some examples:

1) Hero at the BB with 44, 3 limpers and shorty at CO with 300$ raises to 50. I fold pretending I got J4o.
2) Hero at Btn with ATs. Shorty with 250 raise 40 at MP. I fold my 7To.
3) Hero overlimps with A5s at HJ, 300 stack shorty raises 60 from SB...

Their super aggression pre makes the game very difficult without a good starting hand. You hardly can see their hands since most pots end before or on the turn. I did try to trap them with premiums but how many AQ+ you can have in couple hours? During a card dead stretch, ATs on the BTN might be the best hand in 2 hours but I have to fold because of those short stacks.

If they luckily double up, they just leave or change tables. How do you guys deal with similar situation?

Thanks!
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 05:06 AM
Not much you can do except keep doing what you've been doing. Can't set mine when someone raises 10x for 1/6 of their stack. And do you really want to call an 8x raise with ATs for 50 BB effective?

Shorties are annoying but that's the game. You need high card advantage to tangle with them.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 06:11 AM
It's a question you already know the answer to, it does suck though.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 06:13 AM
Tighten up your range look for spots to GII pre. When you expect them to over-raise against several limpers, go ahead and limp with hands like JJ and AKs, then 3-bet/call when the limpers fold to the ridiculous raise. Or raise an amount you expect them to 3-bet over-the-top, for example JJ in CO with everybody limping behind you, raise to $25. The short stacks might make it $75-$90. Go ahead and ship here.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 07:31 AM
Umm, are you implying that there is but one game in your locale and there are no other options ? If you can't change tables or casinos then develop a counter strategy to deal with players that choose to play a short stack game. In each of the examples above you either lost your blind or folded without putting in any chips. How many SS players are at your table anyway ? Hard to believe that they are showing aggression more than once an orbit. They're still losing their blinds to any raising unless they have a hand they expect to go all the way with. If it's the same SS's all the time, make note of what they have when you do eventually see their cards. There is a informational video / blog out on how to respond to SS's. Do you really think by telling a SS that you have a trash hand he really cares ? He's playing from a scripted chart and believes his cards will be ahead of yours most if the time. If it's too frustrating for you to be in this environment, then take a break until they've left the table.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyHobbs
Hard to believe that they are showing aggression more than once an orbit.
LOL. They don't "show aggression" more than once a hand. And they are the most passive players anyway, that's not actually aggression, it's just a raise with a top 5% hand. They're playing it like a slot machine; it's thrilling for them to flop a set.

The appropriate strategy against someone who is playing 5% is to play 2%.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
LOL. They don't "show aggression" more than once a hand. And they are the most passive players anyway, that's not actually aggression, it's just a raise with a top 5% hand. They're playing it like a slot machine; it's thrilling for them to flop a set.

The appropriate strategy against someone who is playing 5% is to play 2%.
It's not actually. It would be something like 25-30% and if they don't adjust then up it even more and just fold when they do decide to play.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 04:38 PM
Thanks guys. I tried to put myself into their shoes to create a preflop raising range. I think i will do that with 88+ and AJ+. Is this range reasonable?
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-26-2016 , 05:10 PM
Read Ed Miller's bit on playing short stacks in Getting Started In Hold'Em. That gives you the basis for how they'll play. The whole point of it is to make postflop decisions as easy as possible.
Your adjustment should be
1. only call their raises with premium hands. They are going for a preflop equity advantage, so you need to do the same.
2. exploit their pattern by letting them bet and then making your decision or using it to trap others in the hand.
3. remember that if others have called, there will be a side pot with deeper stacks that should impact your plan.
4. Since they'll most likely be all-in, bluffing will happen a lot less since there will always be a showdown.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-29-2016 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseworker
Often in my 2/3/5 games there are short stackers with 200-350 chips. Some of them like to open big and bet big on the flop. It's hard to play against them without big cards. At the same time, there are normal or deep stack players at the table which makes our hand selection pretty difficult. Here I give some examples:

1) Hero at the BB with 44, 3 limpers and shorty at CO with 300$ raises to 50. I fold pretending I got J4o.
2) Hero at Btn with ATs. Shorty with 250 raise 40 at MP. I fold my 7To.
3) Hero overlimps with A5s at HJ, 300 stack shorty raises 60 from SB...

Their super aggression pre makes the game very difficult without a good starting hand. You hardly can see their hands since most pots end before or on the turn. I did try to trap them with premiums but how many AQ+ you can have in couple hours? During a card dead stretch, ATs on the BTN might be the best hand in 2 hours but I have to fold because of those short stacks.

If they luckily double up, they just leave or change tables. How do you guys deal with similar situation?

Thanks!
if any of them ever folds to a shove after committing 1/6th of their stack (most of the times players are bad, but this is history dependent) you can consider shoving case 1 and case 2 i think

if they have been playing really tight pre then just fold it's fine no big deal

at the same time if you're folding these hands you don't have to try to trap them with hands you're willing to stack off with just ship it imo
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote
02-29-2016 , 09:39 AM
If there are no other big stacks at the table, you have to play a short stack strategy. You can make money from the short stackers in a couple of ways.

If they're playing too loose for the size of their stack (such as playing some speculative hands), you play tighter than they do and will be ahead in the range vs. range war.

If they're playing appropriately tight, you can steal their blinds or their limp/folds if they do that.

Otherwise, if they're playing appropriately tight and getting it in early in the hand, they're not making many mistakes that you can exploit. You can make money only from other players that are making mistakes, so you have limited earning potential.

I think playing 25%+ against an appropriately tight short stacker is going to be expensive. You can't outplay them post because they'll be playing premium hands and getting it all in early. Your speculative hands are getting terrible IO in that case. Opportunities to bluff are going to be limited.

If there are a couple of short stacks but several other big stacks, you can look to play against the other big stacks. The good short stackers will "tax" your win and you'll have to adjust your pre-flop play for the fact that the short stacker may raise, but in general you can more or less avoid them. If they're playing appropriate tight, they're not going to be in many pots.
How to play against annoying short stacks Quote

      
m