This. If he is shoving like that, you don't care about him being to your left, since his action is predictable. You are far more concerned with the people who have tightened up, since their range becomes more predictable and, in most cases, is waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of what we're willing to shove with.

got it. right of bully sounds like good. Its like playing ST on Fulltilt really. HAHA.
I have lost bout 5bis to this extreme maniac.
Examples.

22 vs 24o
66 vs 47s
KK vs AQ
JJ vs A9s vs AKo
AQo vs 45s

Its kinda sick. I am getting fustrated that i cant play poker. HAHA

Hmmm... that can't be right, according to the experts you should be way ahead shoving on all those hands.

Thats very unlucky. The chances of losing all five of those is around 8%. Well within the possible, but certainly unexpected.

The only one of those I would disagree with is the 22 hand. You showed up in great shape there and got unlucky, but 22 is only ~51% against a random hand (and actually 48% against a top 2/3 range, which seems a better representation of V--he may actually fold 83o). 66 By comparison is >60%.

Oh, lol. Look, in a preflop AI game I'm not there to make money, the outcome of every hand is beyond my control. I'm there to make Gbucks (or Sklansky Bucks, whichever world you live in).

Ya, I tried to fill up the caddy with some Gbucks but the gas station cashier looked at me funny. Had to whip out the ol' Sklansky Buck Visa card.

So let's look at reality:

22 vs 24o
66 vs 47s
KK vs AQ
JJ vs A9s vs AKo
AQo vs 45s

Following stupid me's advice hero would be down 2BI intead of 5BI, but granted would need a federal loan to fill up the Gbucks account.
(I wonder if villian's willingness on the last one to get it all in with 45s was being previously shown 22 and 66? Maybe if all he had seen before was KK he wouldn't be so willing to stack off on the last hand?)

We'll agree to disagree then, because in my world I'm doing a little dance whenever opponents get it AIPF w 45 vs. my AQ.

Look, nobody's denying that taking marginal spots is a high variance strategy. It's not a great gameplan if you're underrolled. It's not a great gameplan if you have a weak heart. It is, however, a maximally profitable one (barring other considerations like wanting to play deeper than table max vs. villain, etc).

But it's all good, and I heartily recommend that EightFold continues to play in whatever way he deems best to maximise his "real money profit", because we all know that Gbucks in no way corresponds to real bucks.

Just to come back from the tangent which EightFold and I have gotten onto: the posts in this thread suggest that you are correct in getting these hands AIPF vs. this villain (although 22 is a pretty marginal decision regardless: but at least you ran into a dominated hand lol). It's mathematically verifiable that this is profitable range of hands vs. this villain.

But yes, it's a swingy journey. Keep in mind that if the variance is getting to you, you may want to reconsider your bankroll or may simply want to adopt a lower variance approach and go with better hands (but trust me, no matter what range you choose to use, KK, JJ and probably AQo are still in there). But as mentioned, you lose value in the process. Nonetheless, there are sometimes other considerations than value (frankly I don't think they're very good considerations, but they are considerations nonetheless).

Translation: Do you have a $15,000 bankroll to play 1/2? If not, you might not want to shove on every 1% advantage situation.

I once won a tournament here in town when I first started playing poker. First place was like a $9k trip to Vegas to go to the first Howard Lederer fantasy camp, play in a big tourney, etc. Pretty sweet trip. We got to mingle with all the big names (Gus, Lederer, Seidel, Ferguson, and the list goes on). They were also there to answer questions whether in seminars or in person. This was when Gus was on his WPT streak and everyone knew him as the wild aggro guy... now everyone plays like that right? I had one guy in my game back home that played like you stated. Very aggro not afraid to mix it up and get his money in. He'd slap you around, kick you in the balls, and spit on you when you went down. I go up to Gus and say, "Gus, pleasure to meet you, I have a question." Gus says, "Go ahead." I say, "I have a guy in my game that plays like you (pretty noob statement btw) and is way more aggro than everyone else at the table, what should I do?" Gus's response, "Try to get position on him and raise him more often with premium hands, broadways, and med PP+. Make sure you punish him. If you are on his right check raise the crap out of him." Cool advice. So I ask Lederer the same question... his response was something I will never forget... "Bullies don't like to be bullied." I have never told anyone this stuff before. Kind of kept it to myself even though its semi known now.

If your play is to tighten up and wait for QQ+ (1/44 hands, 2%) go for it. Its going to be very predictable and the even the dumb guys will figure it out. And even if you wait for those hands they can still lose, they are not fail proof.

What OP needs to do is figure out if this guy is a bully or a gambler. His title says bully, but is he really? Or is he their to just have fun and gamble? They are sort of one in the same, but bullies will learn their lesson and stay away from you when you start hitting back. Gamblers will gamble until the money is gone. If is truly a bully start punching back. Make him pay. You may have had some rough patches with him but it will even out and hopefully sway in your favor. Sometimes when someone beats up on you so much mentally you feel like there is nothing you can do to beat him, he always has the goods against you... well maybe its you, maybe he plays you differently and exploits you. Adapt to that look at yourself and come up with a plan. Fight back. The only thing mentally you should be worried about is playing good poker. I know sometimes I am guilty of this (the mental aspect) but I try to fight through it and tell myself its just some bad variance with this guy at the moment.


hopefully this ends thread.

thread won't end until 'eightfold' proves to everyone that he's smarter than u and Howard Lederer...

...good post APD

Actually I think Howard and I both said the same thing. I merely added that to really bully the bully to get his attention, you would need to show down a few extra premium hands first before opening up your complete range.

Of course those who know everything took that metagame consideration and turned it into OMG WTF BBQ you have a .0001% advantage with QT vs any two SHOOOOOOVEEEEEEE!!!!!

Shove with any advantage, of course pack 50BIs, and give no considerations to variance or other realities. wooooooohoooooooo!!!

Thread saver.

From another board:

powder_8s
journeyman


Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 284 Re: Most of my profit in 2NL/5NL just comes from stacking ppl with AA/KK

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Ya thats what I find. I win at a rate of 6 BB/100 at nl25. Not all, but most of my profit comes from AA, KK, QQ, and AK. I feel like the whole reason I play other cards is to disguise and get action on my big hands.
Cheers

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Of course it was pointed out that not only do you play other cards to get action, but in deeper stacked games (in relation to the blinds) you can speculate with things like suited connectors and get paid the rare times they hit.

But in low stake shove fest like NL2 and NL5 online, almost all your profit (as tracked by computer software aids) comes from 4 hands - AA, KK, QQ, and AK. Most of the rest actually lose you money.

Now in this case, you don't have to worry about playing other hands in order to get action -- Bully is glad to provide it.
You also are playing a type of short stack game -- forget about the blinds, with this guy making huge raises and shoving frequently, you are playing 1-street poker.

With the buy-in cap, and his raises, you probably really have only about 20 "maniac" BBs, and you are going to have to get all the rest in to see the river.

So see the river a few times with AA, KK, QQ, and AK first. Instead of rebuying 5 times and texting all your friends with OMG!! I was 52/48 on that last suckout!!!!!

Wat? lol

This happened to me once and I followed your advice and only got it in with QQ+! I lost 5 buyins therefore your strategy is wrong if I had just folded every hand preflop I would have only been down a few blinds!!!!!

I think the conventional wisdom here is after you lose 3BI you take the rest of the day off. You only try to be totally strictly mathematically optimal when it comes to coin flips.

lol eightfold if you are trolling you're doing a sick job. If you're not trolling then I need to play some live poker ASAP.

This is ridiculous. First of all, a standard $4,000 dollar roll(20 BI's imo) is easily replaceable if you had too. If you dont like getting your money AI in these types of spots good luck moving up to where high variance swings are standard. Why would you ever pass up posistive EV spots like this?

Im starting to think you dont like money.