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How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range
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How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range

11-23-2021 , 05:57 PM
Im not a nit i play normal GTO monkersolver based range (without the agro 4bet and 3bet light), but often happen im card dead, 75o, A3o, K2s , and i play agro tables with a lot of missisipi, stradle, raises, so very often when its my turn to play its a big pot so i have to play very lineal range, because raise big with a small suited connector like 45s = loose money vs 5 players, and overcall 8-9bb the same at least 100bb deep. But people at the table get angry and start harrasing and talking about that i dont play hands.

I table select fine i play at splashy tables almost always, and im always the player who play less hands.

Sometimes i try to isolate wide big whales with 3bets but always end with other players calling, even both blinds cold calling the 3 bet, so 3bet hands like KJo or A4s its very tricky, and no ISO posible.

Should i open my range and play weak hands vs all the table, or what can i do to have a better table image.

Of course I have very good winrate, but im very very unpopular

How do you guys handle this problem?
11-23-2021 , 06:06 PM
Sometimes humor can be disarming. One I like in PLO is "Sorry, I just keep getting dealt bad aces. But if I'm dealt double-suited ones I'll play them."

Or just honesty: "If you guys saw these hands, you'd understand why."

But mostly, just ignore them. You aren't there to play; you're there to win.
11-23-2021 , 06:26 PM
If you feel its going so far as though your nitty image is seriously hurting you, like for example the risk of not being wanted in a juicy homegame anymore- then i would consider doing something about it.

If strangers at a casino complain, i woudnt mind so much.

One of the things to do if you need to better your image and getting more people to want to play with you is to straddle on a regular basis.It shows that you arent there strictly to nit it up and wait for the nutz, and that you are willing to contribute to the game and the level of action without getting anything in imidiate return.

Also always say yes to run it two times if the fish/rec players asks for it. Even if you would prefer to run it just one time if you got to decide. It shows that you arent a stubborn grinder/killer, but wants to have some fun and be an easy going guy with it if fish wants to run two boards.

Many serious winning players also never show cards if they dont have to, this can also be a bad thing contributing to a bad nitty grinder image at the table. You dont need to show all the time of course, but show if a nice rec player asks to see it- or if you shipped allin on a semibluff or did a light 3 bet. Just to help creating a friendly atmosphere, and to show the table that you arent only playing the nutz.
11-23-2021 , 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range
Sometimes humor can be disarming. One I like in PLO is "Sorry, I just keep getting dealt bad aces. But if I'm dealt double-suited ones I'll play them."

Or just honesty: "If you guys saw these hands, you'd understand why."

But mostly, just ignore them. You aren't there to play; you're there to win.
Thanks for the advice. i saw some people use great humor, im shy but i will try or ignore them
11-23-2021 , 08:05 PM
-Straddle like Petrucci said
-Ask if anyone wants to play bomb pots
-Do something neutral ev to entertain the action junkies like side bets on whether the flop comes out with more red or black cards.

Also don't be afraid to open up your range a little in CO and on the Button, especially if no ones squeezing in the blinds.

If it gets really bad to where even the whales won't give you action (I've been there before), table change.
11-23-2021 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range
If you feel its going so far as though your nitty image is seriously hurting you, like for example the risk of not being wanted in a juicy homegame anymore- then i would consider doing something about it.

If strangers at a casino complain, i woudnt mind so much.

One of the things to do if you need to better your image and getting more people to want to play with you is to straddle on a regular basis.It shows that you arent there strictly to nit it up and wait for the nutz, and that you are willing to contribute to the game and the level of action without getting anything in imidiate return.

Also always say yes to run it two times if the fish/rec players asks for it. Even if you would prefer to run it just one time if you got to decide. It shows that you arent a stubborn grinder/killer, but wants to have some fun and be an easy going guy with it if fish wants to run two boards.

Many serious winning players also never show cards if they dont have to, this can also be a bad thing contributing to a bad nitty grinder image at the table. You dont need to show all the time of course, but show if a nice rec player asks to see it- or if you shipped allin on a semibluff or did a light 3 bet. Just to help creating a friendly atmosphere, and to show the table that you arent only playing the nutz.
Thanks i will consider straddle when people complain on juicy tables, otherwise just ignore them I play at the casino
11-23-2021 , 08:07 PM
treat them like customers, you don't have to kiss up to them but pretend to be interested in what they have to say, ask them a follow up question once in a while for whatever BS they are spewing at the time and generally be nice. it works.
11-23-2021 , 09:38 PM
Out of curiosity: when you say you play normal GTO ranges does that mean that you play raise or fold in HJ in response to multiple limps, or an open and several calls … or do you have an overlimping/overcalling range?

As for how to improve your image:

— look for opportunities to make a light 3bet and if the hand goes to showdown it will improve your image.
— look for opportunities to make a bluff if you think it is slightly - EV at worst. If you get a fold you win the pot, if you get a call it’ll be good for your image.
— this has already been mentioned, but straddle. Or propose a round of straddles.
11-23-2021 , 09:55 PM
I have said - you high rollers make me nervous, Ima stick to kings and aces for a while.
11-23-2021 , 11:28 PM
I find, being one of the tightest in my home game, just being nice and complain about crappy cards works.

Our game has a straddle just about every other hand, so I straddle about as often as I have to. Make a big pf raise once in a while with garbage and show it if everyone folds... Always worth a chuckle or two and helps your image. They still call my all ins pf when I have KK or AA with kqs, ajs, etc...

In a casino environment, just be nice and pleasant /friendly. Give a little action when you might be slight - ev, goes a long way to max profits.
11-24-2021 , 09:18 AM
"I am not a nit" hmmmmm that's exactly what a nit would say...

In all seriousness tho, who cares? If you aren't a social person and you are there to make money then just put in headphones and ignore everyone. You wouldn't be the first or the last grinder to do so.

But you'll be a lot better off if you just start playing a little looser than gto ranges. Use the btn open range in the co, the co range in the hj, etc. They're playing waaaaayyyy too wide so you're costing yourself money by folding so much.

Playing ranges from 1 or even two spots closer to the button is so much better than trying to trick them into thinking you are looser than you are
11-24-2021 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itaba How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range
Im not a nit i play normal GTO monkersolver based range (without the agro 4bet and 3bet light)
Does it really matter that you think you're not a nit if everybody else at the table thinks you're one?

If you play in a public casino, being a nit isn't an issue though. The problem is that it bothers you. If you're unable to stop caring about what others think of you, start playing more hands or at least give others the impression that you do.

Recreational players go to the poker room to have fun. They don't drive to the casino to sit at a table and fold for hours, unless they are retirees. Therefore they view the game from a very different perspective than you do.
11-24-2021 , 12:04 PM
People who lose their money tend to get angry and blame whatever they can for it.
There's really not much you can do about it.

If you're playing GTO or close to GTO ranges in a typical loose live game, that's the definition of being a nit.
Being a nit is hugely profitable in these games though.

Do you play poker to have others at the table like you, or to make money?
How much EV or win rate are you willing to sacrifice for people who are just going to be angry because they're losing anyway?
11-24-2021 , 12:47 PM
It isn’t necessarily an issue of sacrificing win-rate to make ourselves more likeable.

If playing GTO ranges in live poker (whatever that means) implies that that we’re VPIPing 15% in 9max and the rest of the table is VPIPing 35%, we’re leaving money on the table by not being involved in more pots.

Most of the value of live 1/2-2/5 comes from navigating very-multi-way pots, and that’s not something that is learnt by players with an online background. For example, if UTG opens and there are 3 callers and we’re sitting in CO or HJ, what charts do we look at to determine our response? Charts don’t cover this scenario.

It is very easy to find a lot of neutral to slightly negative EV non-GTO calls in LP, but these calls are probably ++EV if our opposition is bad enough and we have deep enough stacks. By finding these calls we enter into more pots with bad players, and thus raise our win-rate, and raise our VPIP. Potential for a win-win.

Last edited by ChaosInEquilibrium; 11-24-2021 at 12:55 PM.
11-24-2021 , 04:14 PM
They used to harass me in the casino to loosen up, I was good humoured about being a huge nit and made exactly zero adjustments to my game. Once they realised I wasn't going to do anything different regardless of what they said, the comments pretty much stopped. If its a home game you may need to change it up a bit, if its a public casino they can go eff themselves if they don't like it.
11-25-2021 , 02:52 AM
Wish I had this problem a lot more often.

I just tell them I’m waiting for aces. I’ll even show them my aces or kings when the hand is over and they tend to have a good laugh. It shows them you aren’t a thin skinned nit taking things too seriously. Nits can get tilted pretty easily when someone points out their tight play.

This tends to happen at loose tables (duh), and even if you play a few more hands they will still think you are a nit.

They aren’t going to be impressed you played an extra hand from the CO after you folded your garbage in early and middle position.
11-25-2021 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itaba How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range
Im not a nit i play normal GTO monkersolver based range (without the agro 4bet and 3bet light), but often happen im card dead, 75o, A3o, K2s , and i play agro tables with a lot of missisipi, stradle, raises, so very often when its my turn to play its a big pot so i have to play very lineal range, because raise big with a small suited connector like 45s = loose money vs 5 players, and overcall 8-9bb the same at least 100bb deep. But people at the table get angry and start harrasing and talking about that i dont play hands.

I table select fine i play at splashy tables almost always, and im always the player who play less hands.

Sometimes i try to isolate wide big whales with 3bets but always end with other players calling, even both blinds cold calling the 3 bet, so 3bet hands like KJo or A4s its very tricky, and no ISO posible.

Should i open my range and play weak hands vs all the table, or what can i do to have a better table image.

Of course I have very good winrate, but im very very unpopular

How do you guys handle this problem?

I don't know why they are complaining. It should be pretty easy to play against nits. They should just raise you constantly, even min-raise, take your blinds and take your button, until you fight back - and then get out of your way and don't give you any action. If they don't like playing with you, then they should change tables.

Your first example is... a straddled, raised, 5 way pot ... should you re-raise with 54s? I sure wouldn't, especially when your opponents are sticky. The SPR is going to be super low. If it is a 1$/3$ game with a $6 dollar straddle and a $18 dollar raise, the pot is going to be $90 when it gets to you. If you want to take the pot down, a big raise is in order. I think your raise needs to be somewhere between $75 and $100, if not more. If you started with 100bb and you get just 1 caller, the pot will be $290 and you will have $200 remaining. SPR less than 1, you only have 1 move on the flop and that is all in, if you have top pair+. A hand like 54s is not going to hit top pair + very often at all. You are much better off doing this with a hand like QQ+/AK.

Your 2d question is .... should you still try to iso-3bet whales with hands like KJo and A4s, even when it still frequently goes multiway?
3 comments.
1. Yes. 3 bet whales, in position. This is a money maker.
2. I might not do it with KJo but I would definitley do it with Axs moat of the time.
3. If it still goes multiway, tighten your range just a little and raise bigger. If they are calling big 3 bets out of position, they are the donks, not you.

Your 3rd question is, should I open my range and play weak hands versus all the table?
Answer: yes.
In your first example, 54s is not a good hand to raise with but it is a great hand to call with and go to the flop 6 way with they type of hand that can draw to better than top pair and take down stacks.

GL, Magnum
11-25-2021 , 11:32 PM
You guys and your adherence to only play GTO in LLSNL is just adorable.

Sorry to break it to you OP, but you’re a nit. Start doing non-nit things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum1111 How do you guys deal with angry players when card dead, play normal range

Your 3rd question is, should I open my range and play weak hands versus all the table?
Answer: yes.
In your first example, 54s is not a good hand to raise with but it is a great hand to call with and go to the flop 6 way with they type of hand that can draw to better than top pair and take down stacks.
Hands like 54s you want to draw to everything but typically a flush, especially if you’re multi-way. A 5 high flush is rarely good and if it is, you need to know what Vs will pay you off with worse than a flush if you’re going to draw to it. Sometimes this nuance of playing low SC is lost on people
11-26-2021 , 10:34 AM
I find that playing a mostly TAG style, getting caught bluffing once in a great while, never showing my cards, and making the occasional open with 9-5 suited is enough to generate plenty of action for me.
11-26-2021 , 12:58 PM
Some people are going to think you’re a nit unless you widen your range enough to include hands like K7o and J2o utg. Sometimes you’ll just be card dead for a while.

      
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