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How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? How do we treat this tiny bet OTT?

11-19-2018 , 12:21 AM
V is a 60's middle eastern. Mostly loose and passive (40% VPIP) but will get aggro/airball bluff when he senses weakness.

H has neutral image.

5/5 1k effective

V opens mp1 20
H mp2 AQ 3! to 60, V calls HU
K82 (125)
V x, H x
J
V bets 25
H to 115, V thinks for a few secs and calls
2 (355)
V checks, Hero?
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 12:37 AM
Any reason for the 3b?
When passive players start to raise they usually have something.
I Am cbetting this flop as checking can look weak and given your read villian will start the aggression and we cant really contuine that often.
As for his turn bet it is so small it is almost laughable but it does really put you in a tough spot.
You cant really fold for that price
Calling makes you look weak,and I would expect villian to fire the river a lot of the time
Raising would make sense if you trying to rep a big hand but if called you will need to back it up on river or go home.
As played the river is a ok and think a bet of 300ish might be it through as you are really targetting the Jx/8x to fold here.
All Kx will call and as all draws brick out so really hope he is able to lay them down.

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How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 12:43 AM
Looks like he could have something like A8 or a weak K. I don't think that he is ever folding top pair, so I would check it back and minimize your loss. If you are going to try to shove him off of some kind of one pair value hand, I would go 135. Something that looks supervaluey.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 04:02 AM
If v is pfr wide then 3! is good if not then don't. Have you 3! v before? is he defending often? In this spot its probably best just to stab when checked to otf for 1/3-1/2 pot to make v react/mostly realize your equity and make v play straight forward most of the time. AP, I think we need to bet river but I am not a big fan of the line. If v has a fold button I think this is a spot where going bigger is better. Any idea what his small stab ott means? I think that is probably the most important because he's probably only downsizing with a specific portion of his range.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 04:09 AM
You could certainly cbet the flop but if not I like the turn play. You could have KK. Jj. Possible AK. Most people take turn raises pretty seriously.

My experience in these spots is that the v is making his decision when you raise. You're going to have to give him new evidence on the river to make him reconsider a k or maybe AJ. that would require an unusually big bet.

There are a few hands with showdown value that would fold to a smaller bet but not many.

Call me a puss but I lean to checking and beating his draws.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 09:19 AM
Grunch from title alone: Treat it like a check, do whatever you were going to do anyway. OK, off to read post.

Post-grunch: I'm also in the c-bet camp here. AP, given reads, I like the turn raise, as a call will likely get us bombed at OTR, and there's no way I'm folding to that cheese and setting ourselves up for cheap exploitation. Now that he called, we need to continue OTR, partially to fold out his 8hXh hands, and partially to avoid showing if possible.

I don't think many Ks are in his range, but if there are, he's likely not folding them at any size. No reason to make the bet big OTR. Make a value-sized bet in the 1/3-1/2 pot range, imo.

Last edited by Garick; 11-19-2018 at 09:26 AM. Reason: post grunch
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 09:41 AM
This is a good flop texture for balancing cbet/check range after 3b pre, though not sure the V is thinking about that. That said, not sure I’m 3b pre-flop when a LP suddenly raises, but w/e.

Agree with Garick that the turn sizing is more, or less a check. Hero blocks AA/QQ/NFD, so if V can fold a hand like TT, go $150ish on river.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 10:39 AM
Readless this looks like Jx. Or medium PP. It is spot where guys are gonna call light. I would expect a call from Kx, and Jx. Bet may or may not get PP to fold.

I would have sized Turn raise up to $140ish range or flatted.

As played, I am not gonna fire the 2nd bullet. Our turn raise was likely +EV bet. No sense in blasting off what looks to be -EV bluff.

Sizing on bluff is tricky. Can go big or small. I would use table dynamic to make my best guess.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 12:59 PM
2 seems like a bad card to bluff, raise the turn to 75, definitely bet the flop
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 02:19 PM
This is the perfect board to c-bet
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 03:16 PM
In general I like a cbet on the flop, K high dry favors the 3bettor and be block AK KQ combos. However if you’re worried about balance I don’t hate checking back here.
That said if you’re gonna check back the flop I prefer to go into bluff catch mode and call down turn and river (if you’re not gonna do that u should prob just bet the flop).
So given the flop play I just call the turn bet.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote
11-19-2018 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Grunch from title alone: Treat it like a check, do whatever you were going to do anyway. OK, off to read post.

Post-grunch: I'm also in the c-bet camp here. AP, given reads, I like the turn raise, as a call will likely get us bombed at OTR, and there's no way I'm folding to that cheese and setting ourselves up for cheap exploitation. Now that he called, we need to continue OTR, partially to fold out his 8hXh hands, and partially to avoid showing if possible.

I don't think many Ks are in his range, but if there are, he's likely not folding them at any size. No reason to make the bet big OTR. Make a value-sized bet in the 1/3-1/2 pot range, imo.
Ya, the plan was a delayed cbet, so I just treated his bet like a check and went along with the plan. But when he called, river was really close and I thought I had enough sd value to check back...also we block Ah8h, Ah2h

but perhaps you are right in that not having to show is better for our image, especially at very loose passive tables where a lot of value comes from barreling turns.

Spoiler:
Went x-x OTR. V said Q hi and I scooped. Q9 QT most likely. Seemed very upset/confused that I would raise turn with A-hi, so I think it was better for me to bet and take it down.
How do we treat this tiny bet OTT? Quote

      
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