2/5, playing for couple of hours, Hero already TAG and card-dead so not much action, but managed to win some smallish pots, suppose image should be competent, stack $680. Villain VPIP is similar to Hero's, not seeing much action, stack $450. Seems cautious.

Hero in MP limps 33, Villain in LP who Hero never saw raise went pf $30, folded to Hero who calls.

Flop $67 Q83
checked around

Turn K
Hero bet $35, Villain reraises to $105, Hero? I know shouldn't have monsters-in-closet but been in several losing ends of set vs set. Still, not letting this go but it's conscious in my mind. I know flop was dry but funny he didn't bet, does he really have KQ here? QQ definitely possible and to lesser extent 88.

You shouldnt be playing poker if you're seeing ghosts when flopping massive hands. Bet the flop turn and river. Bet lots of money, win lots of money. Easy.

Oh and I dont understand your preflop comment. Did you try to open limp and got forced into calling the 30? Dont open limp. Dont setmine under 100bbs. (if its probably going to be HU)

No, I'm definitely going for it, just have some misgivings. Anyway, not sure what you meant by 100bbs, isn't it approximately 8 to 1, so effective stacks are good for setmining.

Just wondering if only call here or gii?

Try to play deeper if possible - 680 is quite a short stack on 2/5

Wouldn’t limp

Raise first in when folded to you with 33

As played, bet flop

Max buyin here is $500.

Depends on the table, this one quite often pf bets, so I'm content to setmine.

Not sure if I want to forgo giving Villain chance to cbet.

I thought you had the 450 stack, mb. You raise instead of limp because it gives you the initiative in the hand and you take down a lot of pots based on being the aggressor. This is why you never open limp. Id make it 20 pre and probably follow it up with a cbet depending on the board and V type.

Flat turn, jam river. If it is set over set, reload and play the next hand. Two pair is never folding.

Pre is a bit meh imo.

I like check/raise turn more than betting.

There are villains that you could get away from this when raised. But you would need a good bit of history to be confident that villain is never doing this with AK/KQ.

Your odds of hitting a set are roughly 8-1 but you don't always win a big pot when you do hit a set. Sometimes villain has a higher set or makes a straight or a flush. More commonly you will catch your set and villain won't catch anything.

A lot of good poker players will never go lower then 15-1 and are looking for 20-1 or better. I will go as low as 10-1 but only in ideal situations. Being OOP heads up against an unknown villain is not close to ideal.

It's all good, but effective stacks are $450 so it's still good odds to setmine.


Yes, that's what I was going with.


Well, I'm not Houdini, not sure if he would've bet ott.


Interesting points. I wonder if ppl here think 8 to 1 is too low or if there are other considerations?


So are we jamming here or wait till rvr?

You have an absolutely massive hand here. I'd go back over the top here. With 2 to a flush and 2 to a straight on the board, you need to make him pay if he's drawing. Due to his stack size, you may as well jam since there's no other amount that really makes sense.

Everything that calls (or raises) you on the turn would very likely bet if you check. Furthermore, he would probably stab with some low equity bluffs which he will fold to a bet. Make him hate life when he has Kx or a draw.

Yes, I agree. That's why I hate oop, anyway, this is now getting to my OP question.


Sure, unfortunately up until the turn, we don't know what range he's on, maybe slow playing overpair or missed since checked behind otf. Now ott I didn't want to waste more value so I led out, his rr narrows things.


So my playing bad is just calling the turn rr, I think should have gone ott here, but failed that.

Rvr $277 K
Hero?

Have you read my post? It feels like you haven't. You don't have to agree with me, obviously, but my point was that everything you will get value from (and more) would or at least should bet themselves after you check twice. That's why I think check/raising on this board is a lot better than betting. I would love to hear others chime in on this. Maybe I'm missing something.

You dont rely on people to bet your hands for you. A x/r line gets a lot of folds, a bet bet line gets way more callers and you are setting the price and you are getting called much weaker. You almost never slow play a hand you are willing to go all in with because you are giving infinite IO to someone who was probably just going to x/f. What if V had 77 here and the turn was a 7?

I did and appreciate your comments. I'm just saying that's the inherent problem with playing oop, I don't know if he's going to check behind again ott, and I'm going to lose another street of value. I don't think it was a mistake for us to lead out ott, especially now it's getting a little wet and for value. It seems you're looking at results and realizing Villain is aggressive ott but we didn't know that until it happened. Anyway, it is kinda moot as we had the chance to go ott ott (lol) for even more value vs x/r but I think this is really where I screwed up by only calling his rr.

Sigh... No, you don't know if he will bet. But that doesn't matter, because he will fold all his hands he wasn't gonna bet anyway. You'll only get value from hands he was gonna bet himself, is what I'm saying. By checking you don't "lose another street of value", because there's no value to be gained if he checks behind 77 or whatever.

So you're actually advocating to just donk the flop here, because what if he checks behind 77 and binks the turn?

I'm saying he likely isn't gonna fold a K or a draw on the turn if we check/raise (we are relying on him betting JT and diamonds, and hopefully AJ/AT and even some zero equity bluffs because the K is an excellent card for him to bet on and rep something), even moreso because a turn check/raise after a flop check/check will look pretty suspicious to him. Yes, we risk his mid pairs oversetting us on the river, but I don't think that 4 percent chance outweighs what can be gained here in any way.

Donking into the preflop raiser looks suspicious and usually gets calls or raises. Try it from time to time instead of playing passive OOP. We shouldnt even be in this hand since pre is so bad and now were gonna play to get 1 bet in when we could get stacked here.

Then what if he checked on the turn, are you saying we check the rvr too? Turn is usually the street where things get more defined, I don't think betting turn was bad, especially since V did rr us, so that's even a better spot than c/r'ing.


I'm intentionally checking to the raiser otf especially since it's so dry, but, for sure, will mix things up...this is the first real hand I've seen V in with a pf, so just wanted to see what he's gonna do. Not sure why you said pre- is bad, I don't think there are many absolutes, it depends on the situation.

Wish hero knew more about villain here. Having called turn your options are check/call or bet/evaluate. Which is better depends more on villain then anything else. Against some villains it's better to bet river because they are only raising with higher boats but will call wider. Other will fold river to a bet unless they have a higher boat but will bet weaker hands if you check to them.

Without better information bet $150 to target KX and consider a fold hard if raised.

Yes, and I keep saying it, sucks playing oop, aggravated by the dry flop so V was not compelled to play it fast. I think I missed my chance to rr ott and now the rvr card is not the best for us if we do put him on KQ.

Isn’t this just a fold pre, if this guys VPIP is as low as yours and he raised to $30 aren’t you just dominated 80% of the time ? And following the set mining math you’re supposed to get 15x the raise size back, $450, and on a tighter players it leans more toward 20x so $600. Just fold pre if you make your hand and still aren’t sure what to do your preflop plan was bad
As played I don’t mind the flop check, but you’re not ever folding to a turn raise if you do. From his point of view imagine he has AK or KQ and you checked flop and led turn. Does that scream set of 3s, or a one pair type hand taking a stab?
River is a check call/bet call i played a similar hand to this where I bet 3bet and got felted at similar stack depths. So check call or bet call

It's a decent river card since the draws hit. You can still get some value from Kx or bluffs, so I probably just check/call here. Betting isn't awful either, but I'm never folding this hand.

The setmining math is supposed to be ~8x, so only $240, considering effective stacks are $450, seems good. First time I've heard of massive 15x, 20x. Pre-flop plan was to do that and I got my set, I'm not sure why some ppl are saying pre-flop or not donking flop was bad. Of course otr it's either c/c or bet/call or rrai, folding is not really a consideration unless I have a sick read.