Interested in your POV on my river decision – 6.30pm on Fri - table consists of remaining daytime 'reg-pros' and some Friday night revellers. Pots have been bloated, everyone is calling down with light holdings and there is big money to be made here. Great table.

Villain 1 is mid 50s daytime ‘pro’ and has about $350. I have played with him before - OK, prob break even or small time winner, nitty, overvalues his aces and mid pairs post and hard to shake off a two pair or better hand. He's sitting 350. He is on button.

Villain 2 is a mid 50s Asian Male who is in MP. He has a stack of about 110. Very straightforward to read – bets when he has something, including donking, hates folding when bet into or reraised and bets waaaayy too small. Loose passive pre and loose passive ish post. Your basic ideal 1-2 villain.

Hero is 40yr old white male. Stack 350 ish. Have been card dead and one of the least active at the table. Have won one big hand, also got it all in pre with AA when the villain also had AA and while I've not won a pot in an hour or so, I' haven't shown down any bluffs or poor holdings.

I’m in BB with 56cc.

4 limps to Cut off who raises to 12. Villain 1 calls in Button, I call Villain 2 and one other caller.

($61) Flop 7s 7c 4s.

I check Villain 2 bets 15. One caller Folded to Villain 1 who calls. I call.

Turn ($121). 9c.

I check Villain 2 bets $20. Folds to Villain 1 who calls. I call.

I hear Villain 1 say (‘red card please dealer’)

River $181) 3h

Thoughts on all streets (does anyone raise flop or turn?) and then on river...

what’s your play here?

Edit - I know there'll be some posters who think the call pre is a mistake and I understand the POV.

On other tables, I would fold this happily pre, but please note that Implied Odds at this table were through the roof, there were several 200-300BB stacks and I think most posters would call here in the situation I was in

Call pre is meh.

Given the stupid bet sizing to allow you direct odds, and the questionable FE, I like your passive line OTF and T. River is a b/c. Against only the betting V, I may c/r river. You hit your gin card and V2 has a 7 or an overpair a lot. V1 is prob on spades.

Has Villain 1 shown he calls with a lot of small SCs pre, or are his flush draws typically AK, AQ, KQ, KJ, QJ, TJ, T9?

I don't like him just flatting with the draws out there. He either has spades or a flopped a monster. How much table talk has he been doing before he calls for the river card to be red?



IMO, fold flop. This is just a terrible board for your draw. You basically need a non spade 3 to make your hand, and even then you're not always good. You can't feel good about any 8, as every 1-2 player playes 87.

Maybe its just me, but I don't like proceeding with a straight draw when 2 of your outs make a flush, 3 of your outs make a commonly played hand fill up, and you're left with 2 outs to hit your straight. Even if you hit a club, you're not always good here, any idiot could float that flop with AcXc thinking they could get paid if they hit RR.

Hopefully this hand worked out for you, but it has all the feelings of a disaster in the making. I think there are much better boards to be playing your type of hand with.

I totally agree with you. In most circumstances, I would never chase a straight with few clean outs and RIO. This villain's description and his tiny bets when he "has something"(ie an overpair), make it perhaps ok but looking back, fold is prob best given his small stack and other V in the hand.

I also wouln't be surprised if villain 1 shows up with 99, 97, or 44 here.

i call there pre-flop all the time. I like those hands m-way.

I would lead the flop and bomb most turns. after x'ing the flop, i really like a x/r after the tiny bet and a few calls. Same thing goes on the turn. No on can have a big hand except for a flopped boat, so i'm want to semi-bluff hard at this hand. We can easily rep a 7, and after the tiny cbet and calls, no one else can be strong.

All this does is get villain 1 who has the only stack big enough for us to care about to fold all his draws and call his monsters. Villain 2 hates folding according to hero, and we get stuck in there vs his 7 or overpair and we're playing for his 100 stack with 8 outs.

Also note the bet on flop wasn't a Cbet, it was a donk from villain 2 who hero says will donk out with a hand he likes and hates folding. So, villain 2's range is now 88-JJ, 7x, and possibly a 4. You can't rep a 7 against someone who doesn't like to fold.

His bet sizing reps next to nothing 15 into $60. Also, on this turn, we have 15 outs. Its so hard for anyone to have much here given the action and bet sizing. I can't put 88-JJ in V2's range with his line.

According to hero villain does this regularly, he bets too small when he has a hand and doesn't like to fold. It's a huge leak not to adjust to a play style. If history with a villain tells us he bets too small even when he has a hand, it would be very naive to say "he should be betting bigger here" and assume we have fold equity. You're lighting money on fire trying to rep a hand against this villain.

This is very common in soft games and "good" players are always saying "how did he have a hand there and play it so badly" instead of adjusting accordingly.

Also, you have only 2 fully clean outs on the turn. With the small bet sizing AcXc is entirely possible here, as is a hand like 87.

Look at all your "outs"

Clubs: possibly good here, what do you do if a club hits river and old man nit villain goes all in?

8: what do you do if old man nit goes all in when 8 hits?

3: 3 of spades makes spade draw get there, 3 of clubs makes your club draw. What do you do if 3h hits and old mand nit shoves?

You have the illusion of 15 outs, when in reality you may be drawing dead. This is a terrible spot with this type of hand.

I understand why you may think this but Villain 1 isn't smart enough to run interference like this. His muttered 'red card please' is a clear tell and I was 100% confident in it - he thinks we're flushing and he has a naked 7

this.

I had a second's thought about betting the turn when the back door flush arrived and the betting was so weak, but decided that no 7 is folding there and probably no spade draw either with the villains involved. These are classic 1/2 villains - rarely folding when they have an overpair, a flush draw or trips. 'I had to call there' territory

I was kept in the hand by the weak bet sizing. I felt that it was likely that my non spade 8s were likely outs too and that the club draw gave me more, albeit dangerous outs.

Results

I checked planning to fold to any shove or big raise. Villain 2 bet $20 with 20 behind! Villain 1 flat called. I raised to $105 figuring I was ahead of V1 but had no idea where V 2 was.

V2 called for his last 20 and V1 swore, tanked and then called. V2 and K7, V1 had A7 so I scooped the pot.

I like the check raise on the end. NH

Kinda like a fold pre but understand the implied odds, and love shoveling money in on the river. nh.