In a high variance game, just sat down at local Indian casino, but regs are constantly slowplaying Big pocket pairs. I have zero reads on my table, other than stack sizes.


SB Indian Woman: $400
CO African American: $300
BTN Hero Mid twenties: $300

CO opens for $10 in the CO
Hero looks down at j9ss. Do you like a call here? Is a fold better...obviously I'd like to be the one that opens here...


Hero Calls. SB Calls, BB folds. ($33)

Flop Jc 9h 4c.

Ug top two but uber drawy board.

SB checks, CO leads for $20, SB raises $120 out of turn.

I ask the dealer if I call, is that raise now happening no matter what. Dealer confirms.

Co Calls, I call planning on shoving any non spade turn. Is this played right, or would you shove NOW?

I believe Indian girl either or has a big overpair and or Jack...obvious draws in the CO's range as he just called rather than reraise the action. If Indian girl has a set so be it, but Im obviously not folding.

If this is a fold pre, I get it, slap me on the wrist and I'll move on from the thread.

Feel free to ask any other questions. Remember for the most part this is a vacuum hand

whoa.

If I get this right, we can call the 20, have him still raise to 120, and then reshove?

I like that. Getting it in with top 2 pair here is great. It's not "high" variance. Most times we get it in on the flop is going to be some variance. Top 2 is pretty damn good.

If you think she has a big overpair/jack, get it in.

Pre is fine.

I like the call pre. I would 3-bet sometimes once I get to know the player (basically if I can easily steal the pot from him, preflop or on the flop) but with position in a good game I am playing it.

I am a little confused on the flop. So did you call the CO's $20, the SB raised to $120, and the CO called the $120? I would happily shove when it got back to me in that scenario. You probably have a big equity edge right now and there are simply too many question marks once the turn comes; also, if you're planning on folding when the flush gets there, you may be making a mistake no matter the action because you will be getting huge pot odds and people will show up with crazy stuff enough of the time. Especially if you don't know them.

So you asked the dealer if you call and the raise still stands? Then the CO still calls the raise... Wow... I'm confused & concerned here.

IMO, you either fold after the CO's call of the SB's raise or ship here. Since I can't find the fold button with top-top, I'm shipping this flop 100% and hoping the ~QTcc misses (and that they actually have it). Course, I've seen a lot of coolers in my day and it wouldn't surprise me if one of them showed up with the other 2 Jacks or 2 9's, or set of 4's.

Interested to hear other opines and the result of the hand.

Appreciate the discussion so far. I'll post hand results after a little more feedback.

If the sb "has" to raise I would just call the 20 and wait for the first raiser to call the 120 then shove

I dont mind the preflop call. Its a much better one if you had a read on the OR but a speculative hand, 1) in position 2) for a relatively small raise 3) fairly big stacks 4) no ep limpers to worry about sure I'd make that call. If I read it right co bet 20, sb raises to 120 while we as the button have not acted. First off, now that you know the rule don't ask the question because it makes you look strong. I'd definitely ship here for several reasons. Most players in a 1/3,game are calling this bet w an op no matter what you do. Additionally the ship, to most on a board like that, looks like like a draw (had you not asked the question). It does kind of look suspect when you ask that question, flat and then ship behind but I'd still probably do it. The other main reason you want to get in here is there are way too many scare cards on the turn that hit draws that would slow down even the worst players (assuming he doesn't actually have the draw and it beats you). If a spade, K or, 8 hits it probably slows him down as would an A or 10 most likely. You want a guy w QQ+ to get it in here on thr flop for sure.

Does anybody realize that he asked the dealer if he calls, then the sb's raise stands AND the CO still called said raise. This fact alone scares the living ***** out of me. It might be drooler land, but they still have ears and a brain.

There is a ridiculous amount of money out there. Not that many hands beat us on this board. Some people will have an incredibly difficult time folding TPTK+ or a big draw in CO's spot. Sure, a lot will. But we are readless.

This is definitely a don't over think it spot. Folding here with the best hand is much worse than getting it all-in with the worst hand because of all the money in the pot.

Thanks to all who commented. Spoiler below.

Pretty much agree with abgtr.

3b pre isn't terrible either imo.

I don't think 2) and 3) are present, so I fold pre. You're looking at getting heads up with effective stacks that are only 15x the raise. I think you'd need a good read that CO would often stack off with TPTK or overpair to even think about calling. Without reads, you're just gambling... the same as everyone else.

$10 raise, 300 stacks = 30x, right?

Oops. Sorry, I glanced up and saw "SB leads for 20" and thought that was pre-flop. $10 is fine

I like calling more pre you IP w a pretty hand. But when you call flop and sb raises you have to shove over the top. Don't try and get fancy at a 1/3 table.