Hey - first time poster. This hand is from 1/2 nl. Hope the format is OK i didn't put this through a hand converter.
villain in the hand is a reg i've never played with. He bought in for the max and hasn't showed down a hand yet, i have no reads on him.

6 players limp, SB completes. I have KQ in the BB and opt to check because the table is extremely loose and if I raise I will get called in 4-5 places and wind up playing a bloated pot OOP with king high. also, players are willing to call overbets so I feel like i can control the size of the pot if I flop well.

Flop comes Q54. ($14 pot)
Sb checks I lead for 15. Villain in MP (reg) calls, Fish in SB calls.

Turn comes A ($59 pot)
Action checks around.

River 3 ($59 pot)
Sb leads for 20, I flat, Villain makes it 75. Sb folds. I tank...

The pot is now $174 I need to put in $55 more. I'm getting a little better than 3:1. I feel like the line the villain took looks like busted hearts. I talk to him, try to get a read... don't get anything. I only have 2nd pair but by checked the turn i feel like a capped my range and KQ is really one of the best hands i can have here. I don't feel like villain has many deuces in his range for a straight since came in from MP. Don't think he would ever raise a bare A on the river. the only hand i think i'm losing to is A2o that checked back the turn and all combos of 67. everything else is busted hearts that's making a move because he puts both of us on one pair hands that can't call a raise. I make the call, he rolls over 82. i was right about the busted hearts, but he made a straight on the river. I know i probably should have barrelled the turn, but the SB is a fish who likes to float with any A and i thought he might have hit his card on the turn.

I still don't hate my call on the river, but i'd like to hear what you guys think.

Fold river. One pair is never good there. Also raise pre make it like 25-30

Raise big and you get calls from mid pocket pair that will fold on the flop most of the time, hands that you dominate like KJ, QJ,etc and AX suited. You probably get called in 1 or 2 places and take it down. With a cbet

I like checking pre if a raise will go multi-way. In a family pot, I'm usually checking this flop & going for the cheapest showdown possible. TPGK may look good, but with so many players in the hand a single pair is not often best. With so many people, I think our hand works best as a bluff-catcher. I like checking the turn and the call OTR. At this point, I'd fold. Sizing screams of value. I'd let go of most Ax hands here as well.

I actually think the call is well played vs a reg.

I don't think he ever has a value hand when he checks back the turn. I expect any 2p+ hand to bet the turn, as well as 76s as its only 3 way trying to rep the ace. So if he has a value hand it probably has improved only on the river. Hes limped on the button but really only A3s makes some sense, or A2 if he somehow checked the turn. Its unlikely he has any other two pairs except maybe Q3s if hes very loose or 53s if it hasnt folded flop.

Its 55:174 so getting 3.5:1 i would call - also folding isnt fun!




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that's what my thought process was... the raise was so polarizing... it's either a straight or missed hearts. nothing in between makes sense for him to get to the river that way plus i got a good price. but the sizing did seem very value-ey.

If youre in a game where you can "raise big" with KQ from the blind and get calls from hands like KJ and QJ, I sure hope you are beating that game for 15-20BB+/hr

that's a good point. i guess after checking my option, check calling the flop would be a good play.
Ax and Qx basically play the same in this spot. I'm only expecting him to have nuts or bluff here. I know i could have laid it down and still got some sleep that night, but i guess one positive thing is the table image it set up. I know after showing that hand down any thinking player is not trying to bluff me on the river.

I raise to take it down pre. If I get called I know I'm not dominated, I don't expect them to limp with AK or AQ. If I get called I'm against mid pockets AX or hands I dominate. If I'm wrong please let me know what's my error that's why I'm here. Thanks

I didnt say a big raise was necessarily bad. Im just pointing out that if you play in games where people limp/call 10+BB raises with KJ/QJ you should be destroying that game.

Also, people absolutely do limp AK/AQ. Especially passive 1/2 players.

I use those raises when I see regs and fish limp and I have a hand like KQ the decent players Don't have odds to call, I either take it or play against those players that really need to see a flop, the passive fit or fold guys.

A raise rarely takes it down pre. OP already stated he'd get a lot of callers. Many LLSNL players will limp hands like AT+. I can't think of a recent session where I haven't seen someone limp AK pf. Furthermore, we're behind all Ax hands which someone is sure to have and we're are OOP. Same goes for PP. We need to connect to feel good about continuing on flops, which will be a minority of the flops we see. What's our plan playing the ~5/6 times we don't have TP OTF? Barrel blindly?

Yeah we are behind pocket pairs and AX hands but they don't know that, I continue on most boards and unless they connected big like top pair or a set I don't see them calling. I'm usually the tightest player at my table and don't make moves like this too often so I guess helps me. Our hand plays well post as with initiative v limp callers ranges.

pablo.rrt i agree with you - i'm squeezing here at least 80% of the time. i think checking has some merit tho, and that's the play i went with this time. but i think everything you're saying is correct except for the fact that we're never dominated. at this particular table limpcalling with AK and AQ is pretty standard, but even so, typically only passive fish are doing this and they're goign to be easy to play against. the times that we're getting value out of our top pairs far outweigh the few times they have us out kicked.

gurnch:
Never calling here.
Raising 2 people with a bluff on the river happens about never.

Anything other than folding is suicide long term.

Conventional wisdom would say to raise fairly large PF, but you know the table dynamics better than we do. If you really feel a raise is just going to turn into a bloated MW pot, then I don't mind just checking it.

As played I'd fold, but the raise does seem super polarizing. It really feels like either a straight or a busted flush draw. You'd definitely be bluff-catching here, as I'd never expect KQ to be good against any of his value range. If you've seen V make this kind of river raise with busted draws before then I could at least understand the desire to look him up here. Making a small-ish river raise after a bet and a call is pretty much always the nuts though. V would either have to be a total drooler or be in a leveling war with both you and the SB to believe that he could get a small river raise bluff like this through both a bet and a call. I'd just let it go and move on to the next hand.