This is my first post, so please poke me full of holes with format and/or etiquette. Thanks!

1/1/16

1-3 NL, $100-300 table buyin. Hero has been playing TAG (about 5 hands in the last 3 hours).
Button, SB, BB ($55), UTG, UTG+1, Hero ($530), #3, #4 ($450), #5
BB is a loose player. No information on #4.

UTG and UTG+1 fold. Hero raises $15 with As Jc. #4 calls. BB calls.

Flop 4s 7s Jh. BB raises $40 all in

What should I do here?

This is what happened:
Hero calls. #4 calls.

Turn 2d. Hero raises $60 in one stack. #4 asks, “How much is that?”. Hero says “60 dollars”. #4 says “200” with a firm voice. Hero folds.

#4 shows 2h4d

My thoughts:
I think I should have raised to $120 on the flop. I feel that if #4 has a set, he would call. If he had a set of 4's or 7's, I would be beat. I think $120 may be enough for him to fold a flush or straight draw. I am not in a good position. I don't know what I was thinking at the time to call the $40. If #4 had a straight or flush draw he would DEFINITELY call $40. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

Raise the flop, BB's shove is meaningless, but #4 could be drawing, no way to know since we're out of position. You can thank BB for queering this hand bloating the pot for us. Regardless you raise, if #4 calls then we're just shipping this turn on him. If there were a 3rd spade and we dont have one, then we c/f assuming he hit. All that happened here is he sucked out. Fish will do that and it's really unavoidable, hence the term suckout.

Thank you javi for the great feedback.

BB going all in on the flop with that stack size first to act is a super easy call HU and you will be ahead most of the time. I would defenit raise here to go HU with BB and protect my hand against player #4, firstly with calling $40 you are giving him a good put odd to call you if he is drawing secondly you convinced this loos player that you are not very happy about your hand so he can take advantage of that and push you out of the put, with your calling he was sure he is good against BB's meaningless all in. You should do this play against these players usually when you have a monster to suck him in or making him play this way for max value.

I would raise to $90 otf and fold to player #4's big reraise or all in

Since you asked, in a humorous way, comments on posting format, here is an excellent way to format your HH posts:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-what-1566635/

Hi
I would never raise the flop. Suspect that hardly someone would advice raise flop if you did not say what V had.
Basicaly we do not want to blow pot too much with TPTK only because there is a FD otf. Besides your As greatly blocks FDs. We do not have to be affraid that our range is caped after check, the fact that there is BB AI makes all bluffs less profitable.

Read the stickies about how to make a thread. As mentioned above, by announcing the results, you'll get biased answers.

Whether raise or not on the flop depends on your goal for the hand. If you are thinking, "I'm not looking to stack off here and am OK if the other villain folds on the turn," then a call is good. The reason is that nothing is in the side pot, so it is going to be harder for the villain to call a substantial bet. If you raise, you are looking to get stacks in by the river. With no information on the villain (which you should have but that's another thread), I'm OK with just calling.

As played, I'd bet a bit more on the turn. The villain probably isn't going to play back at you, but as you move up the villains will see your turn bet as weak, especially as a tight/nit player. They will take shots at you. In addition, a FD with one over is going to call a bigger bet.

You correctly see that TPTK isn't good on the turn and you folded. That was good.

Now if you raised on the flop, let's look at what would have happened. Say the raise was to 100. The villain likely would have called you anyway. The pots would have grown to 260. You would have bet 150 on the turn. The villain would have had 330 left effective and pretty much shoved. The pot would have been bloated to over 700 and would have given you over 3:1 to call. Pretty tough to fold getting over 3:1.when you've committed over 1/2 of your stack to the pot.

The reason for going over this is that you seem on the verge to going into results orientated thinking. You made the right big decisions in this hand and the differences are really just tweaks to your game. Don't start making wrong decisions because someone hit their 5 outer once on you.

Welcome to the forum, OP.

Semi-grunching (means I haven't read the other advice, but I did check to see if someone mentioned not to include results in future posts).

Just a minor bit of terminology nittery, but the first bet on any street is a "bet," not a "raise." A raise is when someone makes a bigger bet than the current one. The reason you hear "raise" pre-flop is that the big blind has already bet. In fact it's called a "blind-bet" because he had to put the minimum bet in without seeing his cards.

I think you played the hand fine. Never folding to shorty's shove OTF, and you hold the nut flush draw blocker, so the chance that we're giving a flush-draw good odds to draw goes way down. I really don't see a need to raise, and if V overcalls, we can get some value from his Jx range OTT and/or charge his draws.

Turn fold is definitely right. V is rarely bluffing in to a mostly dry side-pot. This looks very much like a set or two-pair who is trying to get value and protect against draws.

Post-grunch thoughts. I disagree with the two posts saying raise. First off, and almost pot-sized shove by BB is not "meaningless." Secondly, it is BB who is described as loose, not "#4," and loose doesn't mean "likely to bluff turns" in any case.

As I mentioned above, there shouldn't be a lot of flush draws in V's range, and basically only 4 (the 4 combos of 56s) straight draws. The goal isn't to win the hand, it's to win the most money. Yes, we want to charge draws, but we shouldn't magically put our V's on every possible draw and lose value against the rest of their ranges by over-aggressively pricing out their perceived draws.

Remember, you are playing against the entirety of your V's range (which we see from results are even wider than I mentioned above).

Raise flop for sure. Defines LPs range a lot better and we have a huge hand here. Folding turn is good, 2d is so dry. Also, 5 hands in 3 hours is NIT not TAG.

Edit: I think the results biased my raise flop for sure comment. Calling with the nut blocker seems really good too. Overall I think the hand was played fine except maybe bet a bit more ott like some people said.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using 2+2 Forums

You're admitting that he would call your raise if he had a set, but you're losing to a set. And you then say that he would fold a draw if you raise, but you're ahead of draws. Therefore, raising in that spot makes him fold all of the hands you're beating and makes the pot bigger for him to call with all of the hands that you're losing to.

You played the hand well, don't allow the results of the hand to change your thinking. Someone over called with bottom pair and turned a 5 outer, but the majority of the money went into the pot when you had the highest chance to win, so in the long run, your play will make you money.

If you want to change any information in your problem do not make the changes in your original post, your original question was much different!! You mentioned after you called the flop V raised you to $250 and you fold!!

Looking back over the hand I tend to agree with calling. My snap decision is to raise, which is based mostly upon instinct in these situations. A better player would take a few moments to really think about the consequences of raising/calling and what he is really missing if he just calls. Overall calling is probably better when you analyze the entire circumstance. Although part of me still thinks raising isnt terrible just because it keeps that ongoing dynamic at the table that you are an aggressive player willing to raise at any moment. All too often I see live players just smooth call every single bet with near nut hands and fail to maximize value, then when they finally DO raise it's obvious they have the absolute nuts and they never get paid. They turn over a full house on the flop that has the board locked up and joke about how "cmon nobody had anything there?!"

In live play all it takes is about 3 preflop raises in 1 or 2 orbits and suddenly you are labeled a maniac. This is a good thing, especially when it comes to postflop play. Live players get fed up with raisers real quick. Even when you lose this hand you still come off as an over-aggressive player when in reality getting it allin with TPTK out of position on a drawy flop isnt all that horrible for 100BB's. You'll get a lot more action in future hands.

And of course, since this is live play, everyone is always on a draw every single time and they'll pay any price to hit it

My default is to fold AJo in EP.

Being OOP deep in a bloated pot against a guy we don't know anything about sucks.

On the flop, I think I would also just call. The board ain't that drawy and the pot will be protected already by the all-in, so I don't think there is much of a reason to raise. For the most part, no one ever folds a draw on the flop, so a raise wouldn't accomplish this (although it will probably make their call unprofitable); but I don't think we have to be worried about the lone guy behind us being on the lone flush draw.

I actually don't mind the small 1/3rd PSB on the turn, although I might bet just a tad more so that flush draws (which are the likeliest draw) don't get immediate odds. As played, I also fold. The pot is protected with little dead money in the side, so I doubt this is a bluff.

GIthinkyouplayeditfinepostflopG

#4 is a gift for your table. 24o!

if you only played 5 hands in the last few hours why did you pick aj which is a terrible hand to open for a big raise with in early position.

otherwise i would raise on the flop as its a great spot to be against an all in here. and most times that will be what happens.

Stacks are really awkward! I think something like $140, shove turn ($295 into $375) is probably best. Small enough OTF that decent draws and maybe KJ or QJ calls. It's possible #4 will make a light call OTF thinking we might be trying to isolate the BB with lol AK.

A lot of deep analysis can be made on this flop situation depending on #4's tendencies.

This thread reminds me of my days working for the agency.

I doubt hero played 5 hands in 3 hours when he looks at AJo UTG 2 and bombs away.

Fold pre. With As I would be more likely to call flop than raise, hard for a worse jack to call when you raise but when you call stuff like KJ/QJ/JT/J9 are all calling. If he is overcalling with 42o? We are printing money. Without As now it sucks to have a spade hit, but there are more Axs draws in opponents hands behind to call a raise.

Probably a little bigger OTT, OP. 85$? Shoving blank rivers for value. B/f is the right line. NH

I spend days at the table without seeing stronger PF hands than AJo OOP ... and actually OP's perceived tightness increases the profitability of playing marginal hands.

Guess you don't play a lot anymore?

ha i like playing with guys that think they go days without seeing a decent hand and think they are going to win money now playing dominated type hands oop..