I was playing 1/2 at Borgata new to table

$210 MP with the black 8s
1 limper
I raised to $15
Five callers including blinds

($75)
Flop 82J
Checked to me,
I'm not liking that I flopped a set on a wet board so I bet $45

One caller from BTN

Turn is the K
I see this card and I am reluctant, so I checked.
He bets $100
I go all in for $55 more

River was 4

When it comes to showdown he shows red AKs and the players near me say flush, so I muck my set....turns out he just had a King pair! he had A K and said he knew' I had pocket queens or Jack's since I didnt like the King card."


I can't believe I folded winners. Especially an all in situation.

Has anyone else accidentally fold winners before?

no. not sure what your thoughts on the turn could have been.

I have. Phil Ivey has done it on television before. Just slow yourself down on rivers for a while and don't listen to the peanut gallery, they always think it's nut v 2nd nut.

SPR is tiny, you have 10 outs if he has it, just make it bigger on flop and ship it on turn. You aren't folding so take the line that maxes your fold equity.

I thought he called my flop bet because he either is looking for flush or already had it. When the 4 diamond came, I assumed he had A

So when I when all in, I felt I was behind unless I boat up on the river.

I should have asked the dealer what he had before mucking. I acted too fast

I had AdJd9x7d on 6x8d9dTdTx and called a huge river bet and was shown TT and I mucked thinking I only had the nut flush and only realized after. That was a 8k~ pot. It happens.

Almost everyone has mucked a winning hand before, either because they misread their hand or because somebody misdeclared. It's an expensive lesson.

This hand is played poorly, though. Flopping a set on a wet board is a reason to bet more, not to bet timidly. At least $60 OTF, and I prefer a full pot bet.

I dont mind the $45 flop bet so much, although $55-$60 is probably better. We want someone to call with just one diamond. If we bet too much they will fold too often.

If OPs bet got someone to call with no pair and no diamond, it cant be all bad.

Everyone has done it and if you keep mucking your hand at showdown, it is guaranteed you'll do it again, most likely not realizing it. My solution is to always show your hand, no matter what.

Mike, stop being so results-oriented. It's a monotone flop in a 6-way pot. Someone almost always has a big FD and will overpay for it. Often more than one.

Its not results oriented. Anytime you bet smaller you will get calls from weaker ranges. This hand or any hand. OPs small bet got the guy to call while basically drawing dead.

I'm just saying you don't want to bomb the flop so hard that nobody calls unless they have a flush already.

The biggest problem with this hand is the fact that OP crai after the 4th diamond hit which makes no sense at all.

+1 Mikestarr


Edit: The constant big sizing i see in many scenarios often prevents players from getting paid from wider ranges, and gets frustrated cause they get folds too often. Mikes point is very valid, keep cool and bet smaller can certainly be very +EV-even if the "old school train of thought" tells us to bomb it or bet very big. It isnt 2006 anymore though where people call almost drawing dead regardless of sizing.

I agree with your last sentence, and am OK with (but still consider it results oriented) the first one.

The second is just silly, though, unless we're talking about overbetting. There is zero way a bare Ad is calling a half-pot bet but folding to a 3/4-pot bet in a 6-way hand with a monotone flop. Hell, even the bare Kd is almost always calling. In many games, especially ones that get five callers to a MP raise, those hands are calling a full-pot bet. Get value.

And I said, "I don't mind $45 but $55-$60 is probably better". So we DO agree.

Not really. Your max is my min, and I do mind a bet of $45.

I've never done this before. It's probably incorrect from a revealing information standpoint, but I've always shown my cards at Showdown.

But one time I did make a similar kind of mistake. Was playing 1-2 $100 Spread Limit at the local game and flopped me a set of 9's on a J-9-7 board. I bet out 25 and got snap called. The turn was a 3. I bet out 60 and got snap called. The river was a 7 and I bet the table max of 100.00. The dealer was leaning over and obscuring my view of the other player. I thought fhe dropped a chip in front signifying a call. But it wasn't a chip, it was a plastic souvenir coin from a Vegas Casino he was playing with. I flipped my cards over and he said "Fold"as he revealed the 8-10 straight. Then said he never would have folded if I hadn't showed him the boat.

Delaer said "you have to be more patient sir".

I've had the pot taken from me by accident when i had a fullhouse and the dealer misread villains hand thinking he had straight flush. by the time i realized what happened we were already onto another hand. i learned the hardway to protect my hand that day.

Yup:

6 way limped pot; nobody bet any street, I threw away ace high which was a winner. Still can't believe nobody made a pair 6 way over 3 streets on a non-paired board.

i missed that. i thought he was calling 55 more allin. yeah i agree with u seems bad to put in extra bets on 4 card flush looking at us.

Feel like there's a Postle joke here somewhere.

Almost got a guy to muck a winner. I got caught in a triple barrel with a Jhi missed straight draw and the board was coordinated enough that I thought "eh it looks like I have it and mucking when called on the river is just as bad so I might as well see if he mismucks". So I table it without saying anything and he picks up his cards almost ready to muck as the dealer says "a jack" then villain pauses and goes "oh s*** I thought it was a straight" then tables his pair.

Is this an angle or considered unsporting? I never misdeclared my hand, I just thought confidently and quitely turning over my hand when it was my turn to show or muck was just a costless last ditch extension of my bluff.

Not even close to an angle

Once I was in the BB and somehow turned my Kx2s into a bluff on a 4 spade board and got called. I mucked like an idiot regretting my bluff when he snap called and he turned over top pair. It was maybe a $100 pot at 1/2 but a valuable lesson.

I've folded an overpair to the board once because V declared 2 pair, one of those pairs being on the board. 100% my fault for not realizing that i, too, had 2 pair, but i was caught up in the moment thinking i had 1 pair. it happens.

there are 2 specifically easy ways to combat this:
1) if the rules dictate you show first at showdown - just turn your hand over
2) if the rules dictate your opponent show first at showdown - either do not release your cards until they show/muck or just turn your hand over regardless.

either way, just turning your hand over is never a bad option because once your cards are there for everyone to see, they speak. if there are ever any questions (assuming you're in a casino), the cameras will see your cards, so it will be irrefutable what you have (unless you're playing low limit PLO, then half the table might dispute what the winning hand is).

you were the last aggressor on the river. most places dictate you first to show. by turning your hand over and not waiting for the stupid dance where no one wants to show, you did absolutely nothing wrong.

this is how poker should work. instead, a far to large % of the time no one wants to show a hand at showdown, which is very annoying for all the people waiting to play the next hand.

OP I got it all in pre with AKo in a $400 pot and my opponent flipped over KK (I didn't show my hand). After the flop came 359r, in my head I needed an ace alone to win so the 2 on the turn seemed like a blank to me, as did the 4 on the river. I mucked my hand. As the dealer was scooping up the cards I realized my error too late.

However, I would not take from this the results-oriented lesson many here seem to teach ("see OP that's why you should always table your hand at showdown"). Poker is a game of limited information, and IMHO too often in threads like this people too heavily discount how valuable giving this information unnecessarily to your opponents is.