This is not a bad beat story but I'm looking for opinions on different ways to play this hand and learn if I made an optimal play.

This happened on the weekend and I've been thinking about it since. Hero is playing tight due to lack of cards being thrown my way. Table is passive preflop although I've seen some wild gambles. Most of the table won't know I've been playing tight though as they probably just haven't been paying attention.

$1/$2 - Hero is dealt KK on button. Has $100 stack. UTG raises to $5 and 6 players flat!! $33 in the pot and I'm at a loss on what to do next. I need to raise enough to knock most people out but want someone to come along. I think the threshold is $25- $35 to maybe get one caller but I may get 3 as the players to my right are likely to call on a draw if some one to my left calls. 3betting likely puts my hand face up so I may get all folds. I can shove and represent a small or medium pp and hope someone wants to gamble which I have seen occasionally on this table (saw one player call an all in with A2!!) it was strange because it was a passive table and then all of a sudden people would go crazy on one hand!

What would you do?

Spoiler alert

I shove and everyone folds with the common consensus being I had a medium pp.

Easy Shove. You've only got 50bbs () and there's already 16bb's in the middle. If you bet full pot and got one caller, you'd barely have a half pot bet otf so you might as well get it in now.

Why are you short-stacking? Either add on or pick up imo.

Def 3b to like $35. Will get you the most "reasonable" action.

I.e: 1-2 callers, and will entice action so much more than jamming.

Shoving is okay. I'd rather raise to $30, which is pretty small, but pot committing, and shove on the flop almost always. Everyone calling wouldn't be a terrible result.

I'd make it $30-$35. With KK, I want action. If I had 99/AK/AQ/ect., then I'd shove.

I would make it $35, that's $35 + $35 + $28 = $98 in the pot worst case and we have $70 behind, so it's mostly a super easy push OTF, job done.

Getting 3 callers is fine BTW, since while we will lose more often post, our rarer wins net more $. I'm not really concerned about hands like KK when SPRs are so small...it's kicker problems that kill us.

Shoving preflop is not good IMO unless table conditions are such that you will get looked up a lot.

Is this a joke thread

Edit: I apologize this post was out of line, I read 100$ stack and KK and hard decision... To answer you OP I would make it 40 and never fold post unless nittiest of nits bets an ace board. I would not always bet the flop, depend on the V.

Min raise pre and shove all non ace flops

My thoughts..

I dont like shoving pre as the flat callers likely arent calling another 47.5bb with trash anything theyre not 3betting with themselves.. unless theyre complete idiots. Shoving 100$ to win $33 is going to work alot of the time. We put maximum pressure on the initial raiser who say is only 4bet shoving or calling off with 1010+. Anything less gets folded. As soon as we get through the initial raiser its highly unlikely anybody has flatted with a hand strong enough to call a shove with by someone with a tight image. I just think its highly unlikely to get called.

I think if we 3bet here to 25-30$.. We can shove any flop without an A and give villains just over 2/1 on a call unless we get 4bet pre and can get it all in there.

Serious question:

If we knew everyone would call if we made it $20, but we would only get 2 callers if we made it $35, which scenario would be higher EV?

Don't know, but we have to start with pot size I think.

1. We make it $20, 6 callers, pot is $140 and we have $80 behind.

2. We make it $35, 2 callers, pot is $128 and we have $65 behind.

Have to say, I'm liking scenario 2 more. Doesn't make it more EV though.

Thank you! This is kind of what I'm asking but add shoving and maybe getting called by 1 person say 2/3 of the time.

I should have added initial raiser is a fish.

In the second case we have about $30 more equity due to fewer opponents, making it $15 better ignoring the money behind.

I don't know how money behind affects the problem though. I feel as if in case #1 more opponents are likely to have a hand to call us with, but we'll also be beaten more often. Any idea how to approach this?

The most important thing about this hand is that the initial raiser and everyone who called has a really weak range. If I'm at a table where people don't know me, I pretty much auto 3 bet any two here to a ridiculous amount, and they fold like 90% of the time, or maybe one person calls then check/folds the flop. You have to give them an enticing enough price so that they can say to themselves "duhhhh, implied odds," and then stack off on the flop when they make a pair.

It seems to me that we are beaten outright more often in scenario 1, meaning we just lose more often. Also are still going to have to jam most flops, meaning when we lose, we will need to pay off very nearly as often. Net effect: worse than scenario 2.

We will also have more callers when we shove. So we will see more suckouts and therefore lose more hands, we will also win more $ overall when ahead. Net effect: better than scenario 2.

So I propose that we are worse off because we are behind more often and better off because we get more callers when ahead, but I have no idea how to approach the maths to estimate a net effect.

this. shoving is fine but id rather 3bet and get tree or four calls every time. with qq jj tt ak just shove pre as there are too many bad flops