Unsure of the history between the two but this hand was fun to see since I dont see I havent seen much b v b action although I wish I did. I just got to the table so I am unaware of the dynamic between the two. From what I have seen up to this point SB is an aggressive young TAG who is a full time pro. BB I have no idea. BB doesnt look familiar so I doubt they have much history but its hard to say.

SB tag v 1500
BB MAWG v Covers

Folds to SB who raises to 30, BB 3! to 130, sb 4! 330, BB calls. Flop 2c3h8h. sb bets 250ish, bb calls. turn 5s, SB bets 350ish, BB calls. River 2d. SB shoves. BB calls.

This is one of the fews hands I have seen the SB play. I am assuming he is very good and is also good friends with the best regs.

Anyway, just thought this was a good hand to post since I don't think I have ever seen a B v B hand posted in LLSNL. Also brings be to my next question which is, do you chop or play in a casino with relatively high rake?

Not sure what the question is but 40/30/30 % bet size looks like a good way to get stacks in with AA-KK vs. what would appear to be QQ-JJ. Not sure the MAWG doesn't just call it off in two streets however.

Incredibly clean run out for overpair vs. overpair though. Not exactly the most interesting hand unless they are leveling eachother with 77 vs. AK or something.

What's the question?


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lol it was more of a segue to a question about chopping but I am sure its probably been asked a million times.

If you're the SB and you don't have a cheeseburger draw, say so, hold your cards over the middle of the table face down and offer the chop. If the BB doesn't understand what you're talking about explain it after the cards go in.

so B had KK, right? what did SB have?

Generally chopping is less common when you move up.

What makes you think BB has KK?

In my experience 90% of people tend to chop at all llsnl up through 5/10 besides young euro pros and a super small % of winning regs. I'm pretty sure the best players don't though. So I guess that answers my question. If you think you are better than the BB you should be playing.

Chop 5/10 too, rake is significant.

Not if it's timed.

My policy is that whatever the other player wants, I ll do, but all the time. I won't have you raise premiums and chop the rest of the time. You wanna raise your AA, fine, but you ll have to play your SB all of the time after that dude.

I mean, why would you chop if it's not raked?

Beating a player after you refuse to chop usually tilts them, to your benefit.

just to keep the game moving and people happy ill glady chop with anyone, but if someone ever says no its always a no for me vs them, unless its short handed and they say before the chop option that they dont want to because so many hands would get chopped or something

i always chop 7 or more players - 6 max or less I don't

I always chop if there's rake, unless villain is mega whale, never chop if there isn't, unless guy is good friend and I'm happy to miss out on EV.

Rake is huge.

I was about to say that i think you are making a major mistake by chopping in bigger games that play deep unless you have crazy high rake. Then I saw the bolded text. That changes things but isn't that a major taboo in poker etiquette?

Our rake is $5+1 and I don't really think it's that huge of a deal at 5/T+

Um, I never play in rake games pretty much so I don't know, but I have trusted sources of people who've done some maths on that kinda stuff and I just ask them for a refrehser.

I think it's important to have a consistent chop decision in one session with one player, and I think it's douchey to chop with left but not chop with right, but I feel like if it's made clear then no one can blame you. I never look at my hand before I chop.

For instance, if there's this guy you've chopped with before, and you got into a situation where he moves to chop, and I forgot to say I don't want to chop this time, I would chop that time and say "btw, after this hand I don't want to chop this session". Whether they will chop with me next session when I want to chop again is up to them to decide. If they choose to be bitter and not chop, that's their right.

I will sometimes not chop in short handed games where the villain is one of the weaker players on the table. If it were a full ring game where he's not the spot, I may chop with that person, but when it's short handed, especially deep, playing pots with that player suddenly becomes much more important. Moreover, if short handed, being IP to my left suddenly becomes one of the few spots where I am likely to make a bunch of money. Finally, short handed sometimes have lowered rake, so suddenly you're able to play profitably again.

Anyway, this is mostly speculation. I've probably played well <1000 hours in games where you can chop lifetime.

Hands take time. Chopping makes more sense in timed games IMO -- you skip, on average, hands where you will be fairly neutral EV (assuming you get a random distribution between being in the BB and SB) so it is sensible to avoid using your time (and consequently effective rake) on those hands.

The other advantage is you avoid looking like a nit. Which is valuable in live games.

The search function is your friend.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...ighlight=bb+sb

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...ighlight=bb+sb

Chopping is a personal decision.

Advantages

1. Playing more heads up will make you a stronger player over time by teaching you more about thin value betting.

2. If you raise nearly every time the SB completes, the SB and others will learn to just fold rather than challenge you oop. It will improve your winrate.

3. If some nits get upset because they can't see the next hand as fast as they want, they might open up and play badly against you.

Disadvantages

1. Playing marks you as a sophisticated player in the other player's eyes. You'll certainly stand out, which is what you don't want to have happen in poker. As David Sklansky said years ago, your goal at a poker table is to walk away with a lot of chips with people thinking, "How did they get those chips. I don't remember any hand they played."

2. If you are playing in a place like CA where there is a $3 or $4 drop on the flop, playing BvB is -EV no matter how good you are.

There's no right answer, other than the convention that if you've agree with someone in a game to chop, you should always chop no matter what you have. One of the few times I will show my hand is after a chop, especially with AA or KK. You get a lot of credit for being a stand up person. People don't mind losing to stand up people.