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Gross spot Gross spot

12-01-2015 , 01:16 AM
1/2 No limit, live poker.

Quick history between me and the villain:

I have villain covered (I think I had about $250, and he had about $200)...

He straddles for $5, and I open raise with 76 from the cutoff for $17. He is the only caller, and we take a flop of 468. .... He checks, and I check back (pot control...maybe bad move). Turn is 9.. so I have a pair, a flush draw, and an open ender. I bet $21, and he raises to $70. I take a minute before calling. River is an 8 (non-diamond). He checks (??), and I check back. He shows A4, and I table my pair to win the pot. He says he's upset that he didn't bomb the river, putting me on an 8. "We'll meet again", he says...

We do meet again about an hour later:
Stacks:

Hero: $375 Villain: $300

He straddles for $5 again, and gets 2 limpers. I limp in also with A7 from the cutoff, and he checks his option.
Pot: $23
Flop: 234

The action checks to me (in position), and I bet $21 with my nut flush draw.
Villain quickly min-raises to $42. Since the pot was limped, he easily could have anything.... two pair, a set, a straight, a lower flush draw... who knows at this point, and I'm sure he's still upset about the last pot we played. The two limpers fold, and I quickly call.

Pot:$107
Turn: J

He bets $100.... and here's decision time... if I hit my flush, it's going to be good, but what does he have? Is my straight draw even good? He easily could already be there, or have a set... I doubt he has only a flush draw at this point, but possible... should I fold here? Mistake or not, I call.

Pot:$307
Turn:J

I hit my flush. Villain takes about 5 seconds before going all-in with his last $160 or so. I highly doubt he had a two pair that now is counterfeited. He easily could have a lower flush, or a straight that I now beat. I lose to all full-houses. I have about $230 behind. What should I have done?

Result later after feedback.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 01:23 AM
calling. I see people show up with a lot of stupid stuff here and there are only 9 combos of houses. So many other combos of straights, worse flushes, counterfeited hands he is turning into a bluff. Weird Jx that he got lucky and hit the turn and river with after bluffing flop and a ton of other random crap people just show up with here. Im always calling.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 01:27 AM
Fold turn. You are not priced in to chase your draw. As played you have to call now that you hit your hand and shallow stack sizes.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmenace
Fold turn. You are not priced in to chase your draw. As played you have to call now that you hit your hand and shallow stack sizes.
yea folding turn is probably best. if he had more behind then calling is fine.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 01:30 AM
Yeah, must-call. You're getting ~3-to-1, and there are plenty of hands in his range that you beat. You're really only scared of flopped sets. He can show up with those, but also with 4cxc and other combos that made weaker flushes by the river.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 02:12 AM
throw your chips at him and get escorted out by security
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 07:27 AM
Fold pf, check flop, fold on the turn. Now that you got this far on the river, you need to call. But you should have never gotten this far.

The problem with flush draws are that they are obvious to all but the very beginners.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 07:32 AM
snap call.
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12-01-2015 , 07:50 AM
Not that gross. First, what you have left behind is irrelevant, you cover V. You 'effectively' have 160 behind. Second, if we'e gonna play A7s from the CO I'm coming in for a raise. If you don't really know how to play position or the relative strength of A7s, then I guess limping or folding are fine I guess. If you don't know why you're raising here then it's not going to be a good idea for you to do it. As played, you should definitely be folding the turn. V clearly priced you out of your draw and generally your IO won't be good enough to call there. What would you have done if the river bricked? Finally, river is a snap call.

Last edited by aftrglw; 12-01-2015 at 08:00 AM.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 07:51 AM
Fine pre. Bet less on the flop, probably $15. As played, you have the odds to call the flop min-raise. You need to fold the turn. You don't have to direct odds to continue and you have weak IO because the flush is so obvious. Call the river. You can't fold the nut flush for 3:1 because the board paired. V only needs 3 worse combos to make calling correct.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 09:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys, I agree (too late, obv!), that I should have folded on the turn. I guess I was too focused on my combo draw, and that he was somehow getting 'back at me' for earlier (I've seen my share of 'big bet' tilters).

Result: After tanking for maybe a minute... I call.

He shows 33 for a full boat, and of course does a little celebratory dance.
He leaves about 15min later...don't you hate when they do that?
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Fold pf, check flop, fold on the turn. Now that you got this far on the river, you need to call. But you should have never gotten this far.

The problem with flush draws are that they are obvious to all but the very beginners.
Are you saying I should NOT have even been in the hand with A7 from the cutoff for just the minimum ($5 straddle)? What's the rationale?
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Fold pf, check flop...
Why are you folding pre-flop? Why are you checking the flop?

River is a snap call. You've got MUBS if you need to tank here, OP.

I would have 3-bet the flop if Villain's raise were bigger, but a min-raise is often value and his previous bluff used a large sizing, so just calling is fine.

Fold turn due to insufficient odds and no SDV since V's line looks like value.
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
Why are you folding pre-flop? Why are you checking the flop?

River is a snap call. You've got MUBS if you need to tank here, OP.

I would have 3-bet the flop if Villain's raise were bigger, but a min-raise is often value and his previous bluff used a large sizing, so just calling is fine.

Fold turn due to insufficient odds and no SDV since V's line looks like value.
Great post. What do MUBS & SDV stand for?
Gross spot Quote
12-01-2015 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnieYee
Great post. What do MUBS & SDV stand for?
MUBS means "Monsters Under the Bed Syndrome." It means you're too worried about a small number of hands that beat you when there a lot of hands you can still beat.

SDV means Showdown Value. You have showdown value if you can win unimproved at showdown.
Gross spot Quote
12-02-2015 , 12:47 AM
Pre & flop look okay - definitely not folding this pre in the CO in a straddled pot. I probably bet a little smaller on the flop though.

I fold the turn, not getting the odds to hit our flush. Especially not getting the odds if 2 of our outs are dead.

AP call river for sure - You definitely shouldn't be calling turn if you think the J&4 of clubs aren't outs - we called turn to hit our flush and we did, cant fold now for $160 more.
Gross spot Quote
12-02-2015 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Fold pf
Say what?
Gross spot Quote
12-02-2015 , 03:25 AM
Well don't call the turn. On the flop the min raise is worth a call and to re assess on the turn but after your draws miss and he leads out for 100 with 160 behind its a clear fold.

As played, you have to call the river. It sucks when he has a boat, but a lower flush, straight, or even a counterfeited two pair that he turned into a bluff are all possible as well.
Gross spot Quote
12-02-2015 , 03:59 AM
calling pre is absolutely fine. we're in position and have implied odds. flop is fine. if you guys were both deeper than you can call turn. but given how youre not really getting correct price nor implied odds, its a disciplined fold. As played, probs a call, we're getting 3-1, he can definitely have worse flushes and straights here. it sucks he had a boat, but its a cooler, not too much you couldve done given river.
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