1/3, effective stack $500

i open $10 utg AKo, one loose MP caller, old nit CO 3bets to $85, sb cold calls $85, bb cold calls $85.

play?

i'm a nit so I'd seriously consider folding. OOP, not suited, multi-way pot... not even sure what a good flop for you would look like other than the nuts TJQr

I get into these spots about once every other session. Either a large 3bet, a cold 4bet or a limp/4bet... And i tend to let it go because it's prob the monster it looks like. Against a different opponent it could be a call or shove.
What's the read on the BB? That coldcall could be just a scary as a nit 3b.

That's a massive 3bet. Smells a lot like JJ or AK albeit nothing to go on. Not sure there's a bad play here. Folding A-high is probably fine, calling getting a price is probably fine, jamming and scooping a load of dead money when people fold TT and AK is probably fine as well.

Call and tread carefully post.

It would help to know more about the other players and how the tables been playing but if this was a normal squeeze size with all the other callers it would be an easy jam for around 150 bb's, but when an older nit raises to 80 pre and if he only does this with aces and kings I would easily fold without even thinking twice about it. I would never call there, btjm.

Sometimes old nits will play off their image and raise without AA/KK/AK. His 3B size seems suspicious, making me wonder if he's got TT / JJ and just wants to take the pot down pre.

Once SB and BB call, I kind of want to turn AKo into a bluff and 4B here. Obviously we can just fold if he 5Bs. If he folds, SB and BB should both fold.

If he calls, or if we decide to just flat call rather than 4B, obviously we're only going to continue putting money into the pot if we spike an A or K or a massive draw on the flop.

Folding seems way too nitty here, given the price we're getting to over-call behind SB and BB. MP will probably over-call behind us, so the pot odds and implied odds are massive. The reverse implied odds are pretty low.

So...at least call, but even against the old nit, consider a raise.

Why would folding seem "too nitty" when a nit raises to 80 pre in a 1/3 game, almost playing his hand face up?

Ha—I was in almost the exact situation the other day, and similarly thought about folding (reasoning that even if I’m lucky enough for the 3-better to only have JJ/QQ, I’m not *actually* flipping because the two cold-callers almost certainly have some of my outs—they’re flatting with AJs kinda hands).

(I stuck it in anyway and lost to JJ.)

Push or fold, never calling.
Of course, if we assume the old nit raises only KK+ and AK, it's a fold, but ...
If we were deeper, we could 4bet/fold, but here the pot is already 275, and we have 490 behind: any 4bet will commit us, I think.

Agree this is a shove or fold situation.

Vs a serious nit, I can fold here. However, how does CO see you? If you are indeed an nitty old man, just fold. A nit is not raising your UTG raise with nothing. Of course, you block AA and KK, so he could easily have JJ/QQ and your shove (if you are nitty) could get him to lay it down.

If you want to possibly gamble and don't mind a re-buy (and it won't tilt you), shove; if not, sigh fold and never show.

You edited out the answers to that exact question in the following clauses of the sentence you quoted.

Ok sorry about that lemme see what it said

I'm never considering raising and older nit who just 3bet to 85 and who most likely has aces or kings.

The way I make money in live poker is by playing against someone's individual range.

Then you're losing value.

Hero has AK. He blocks AA and KK.

Can V have AA or KK? Yes, of course. But in my observation, a lot of OMC's will slow-play those hands, not 3B them to 8.5x. That line screams JJ or TT, not AA or KK.

AK doesn't want to go 5 ways to the flop with a capped range, and two opponents in front / two behind.

If hero actually has a nitty image, his 4B is going to get a ton of respect, and a lot of folds from any hand that isn't AA or KK.

This feels a lot more like QQ-TT (+ AK, AQ) than it does KK+. Multiway you have to be somewhat mindful that one of the callers innth blinds could have a strongish pair as well which is why this doesn't have an easy answer. Been thinking about this hand a lot and I still think all options are on the table but with a gun to my head I think jamming may be the play on balance

It's button pressing (assuming the 3bettor is an actual OMC nit). These types of players don't even 3bet AK (they hate AK).

So...I didn't see you say what you would do as hero here.

If you're putting V on AA/KK and nothing else, and folding, okay, I think that's reasonable. I wouldn't agree with your assessment, but I wouldn't fault your decision, because it at least has some reasoning behind it.

If you're only putting V on AA/KK, and therefore never considering a raise, then calling would seem terrible, especially OOP and multi-way. You're already behind V, and any of the other opponents could flop a sneaky set or 2P with any number of hands. This is going to be a very difficult spot in which to realize our equity or extract value post-flop, if we just call.

The only silver lining is that despite the difficulty of getting paid post-flop, the reverse implied odds are actually pretty low, if we know what we're doing. We should just check-fold unless we absolutely smash the flop and make a monster. If any opponents seem ready to shovel heaps in, we should know we're beat.

Like I said in my first comment, I don't like folding AK here, no matter what odds we're getting, but certainly not when we're getting over 3:1 pot odds, probably over 4:1 implied pot odds if we expect MP to call behind. But I also don't like calling, and having to play multi-way, OOP, with a capped range, against 4 opponents, in a bloated pot, where our post-flop strategy is basically going to be smash-it-or-fold.

I'm not fist-pumping to 4B jam over the tight old guy who 3B to 8.5x, but it seems like the best play here, all things considered. We block AA/KK, and V's 3B, as well as his sizing, could be a strong indicator that he has a hand he'll fold to a 4B jam, like TT or JJ.

Even if he calls the jam, we'll be flipping sometimes, have a 30% chance to suck out on KK, occasionally we'll be chopping with AK, and occasionally we'll be coolered by AA. If he ever calls off with AQs, or never calls of with worse than AA/KK, our play becomes massively +EV.

Very far from just button-clicking.

I'm folding to the 3bet.

Depends if you mean pure NIT or "NIT" in the sense that he's nitty relative to you or by your standards. If we're talking a grizzled asian man with spectacles that moves like a gargoyle then its a fold. If we're talking some guy that's unsure of the game and just learning then it can be a call or even a 4-bet.

I love it when everyone assumes the old man always has a monster whenever he puts any money into the pot, then he shows up with JTs, or some weak off-suit Ace, or calls off his whole stack pre-flop with JJ or TT.

We can take the old man out of the equation, and just play AKo as a raise, because that's what you do here, with AKo, regardless of what the original opener looks like.

He was described as a nit, therefore I'm assuming NittyOldMan1 knows him to be a nit (he wasn't just describing what he looks like) which is what our decisions are based on. However, both the blinds cold called an 85 dollar 3bet in a 1/3 game so I don't think we have any FE against them, and even if we raise and get it heads up we're still likely flipping at best.

I've shoved AK into AA and KK more times than I can remember at this point, at 1-2/1-3. I've also lost my fair share of AKo vs. 33 or 66 or whatever. I don't care what the solver says (it's 3bet ranges look nothing like nitty old guy), AKo just isn't the nuts and people don't fold pairs they 3bet with nearly enough.


I do understand the live read that big raises pre. are possibly more likely to be TT-QQ than KK or AA, with the reasoning that people are more scared about overcards and want folds from AK/AQ/KQ type hands. But people will also often raise big with AA because they are scared of you hitting two pair or whatever, maybe not as often but it depends heavily on the player.

IMO Old nit guy is much more likely to just overcall TT and even JJ than he is to 3bet UTG open + a call ... so even if his sizing is likely to be big when he does 3bet JJ he doesn't get to that action nearly 100% of the time. As described without having seen him 3bet AKo previously I'd assume he never has that, or worse, esp. vs. UTG open (and wouldn't label him as nitty old guy).


Any reads on SB/BB cold calling almost 30bb? Like if nitty old guy can have them pegged as massive calling stations then that could be a (good) reason for the 3bet size too.


Honestly the best play is probably fold, at the table I probably tilt shove and get snapped by AA for the 666th time.

Would assume calling is the worst play, but then someone suggested 4bet folding.

Agree with this. I’m probably stacking off on Kxx and Axx honestly if I call $85. The sb and bb calls don’t worry me but the gigantic raise by a nit does worry me. I think folding is ok but also a little too wimpy if you ask me.

Not going to lie, this spot is a high variance flat. It really depends on how you feel about money. If I don’t care about stakes, I rip and take some dead money here. If I want to play mid and prolly optimal- I flat and call off on Kxx and Axx flops. I’m prolly check Kxx and Axx flops that are dry- wet Kxx Axx flops I might just bet 1/3-2/3 pot and just stack off hopefully before more cards come. If I’m scared money playing in stakes that are too high for me- I fold pre and reduce variance.

Calling pre is optimal I feel bc we don’t allow nit to fold when he somehow has a little portion of the bottom of the 3! Big range (it honestly might be jj+ or qq+ if a super nit and maybe AK is in there- idk bc even nits don’t seem to go wacky with AK). Jamming is ok - if we get 88 and 10-10 to fold from flats and run say against QQ from nit- I would slam dunk take that all day due to dead money and a flip.

Spot is annoying bc nits don’t raise big without monster hands (aka I think the range is JJ+ and idk if I would throw AK in there). We block AA and KK a little. Due to fact I think people don’t go super large all the time or most of the time with kk or aa, I’m perfectly fine flipping here with dead money bc I think it’s +ev if we get the flats to fold. Against stupid comment but sb or bb flat could easily have AA or KK bc spr is going to be so low. Idk in live low limit cash/ I feel scared Money which is most money doesn’t flat kk or aa here bc folks don’t realize how to maximize value from slowplaying. KK here- I think flat is better when nit makes it $85 bc spr is so damn low. I’m totally fine stacking off kk here on non Axx flops. Even Axx flops I might stack off if spr is super low and my stack is basically in pre due to call- I might exploit fold to Axx tho against a nit that bets flop.

Yea but losing a flip to JJ or QQ here from nit is perfectly fine with the dead money in the pot. If nit showed me QQ here before I acted, I would happily rip and run it against hopefully two pocket pairs (let’s assume one flat was JJ). The thing that scares me is 2 flats/ maybe someone has AQ and we somehow lose some outs.

OP described V as an OLD nit, not just a nit.

Regardless, maybe the guy was nitty as hell, or maybe it just looked that way, because he's been card-dead and folding everything in recent memory. Maybe the guy understands his own table image, and will throw in some 3B's with hands that aren't AA/KK. Maybe when he does, he goes huge, because he's scared he'll get called, and have to actually play some poker post-flop.

If you fold AK, because you think V only has AA/KK here, and never anything else, okay, you have a reason for your decision. I disagree with your reasoning, but that's okay.

If you call, getting >4:1, it can't be terrible, but it's probably not great. Even if we plan to continue on any A-high or K-high flop, if V really is an old nit, he's probably not going to pay us off with his worse 1P holdings, and we need to wonder / worry about what these other wing-nuts have, when we're five ways to the flop.

In my first comment, I said we could raise, and fold to a jam, without thinking about the stack depths here. I wouldn't raise/fold. I'd just 4B jam.

4B-jamming, as the original raiser in EP, blocking AA/KK, with the ridiculous amount of dead money in the pot, is going to be so massively EV, it's pretty much a no-brainer. Even if he calls and we're flipping, we're getting better than even-money odds when the other V's fold, abandoning the $180 they put into the pot.