I CANT PLAY CASH FOR ****.

Granted I had a couple of nights winning over a k in 2/5 and plenty of 1/2 nights being up 400 or so after a tournament but.... I still don't fell as comfortable playing cash as I do playing tournaments.

and I kill the flamingo 1/2 cash game. Got destroyed at Ceasaras Palace, and thats pretty much the only two I played in. and never played 2/5 in vegas just in Milwaukee at potawatomi, the local pros would rob me blind... maybe I was playing the wrong time of day....

Sorry for blabbering,

What in the hell is so much different from cash game than tournament.

I guess I just played tournaments so much, (probably bank roll situations before being deployed twice to Iraq) That I don't understand what to do different in cash.

So, how do you adjust your play from tournament to cash game?

Live don't care about online cash, at least not at this point

This is strictly my experience for what its worth. I have played live cash successfully at 1-2 and 2-5, and play tournaments infrequently, but have done fairly well there when I play also.

My impression is that in general, due to the slower progression of tournament play, it breeds a tighter form of player, almost passive at times. At least it is this way in the early stages. I am not being negative about this, I think it is necessary for long term success.

When switching to cash IMO if your post flop play is strong, one benefits greatly from a slightly wider range, with higher aggression. Longer term there is more variance, but more success in this approach.

I have a friend that for the longest played extremely loose in cash games because he couldn't handle being so deepstacked.

I mean, i'm pretty loose in the beginning stages of a tourney? I had people that played for 30 40 years get pissed cuz they can never put me on a hand.

Any suggestions on improving my cash game play?

adjusting?
are you assuming I'm playing to tight?

tune up aggression, broaden range

I'm in Kuwait now I'm hoping to keep this thread going when I move to vegas.

In cash game you have to mix up your play. We want to make money in cash games so we target weak players. Fish come and go, so your play will be passive then aggressive. Sitting and waiting for cards is how fish think. You want to be a cash game shark, then you sit and wait for this fish to spew.

Let me put it this way. If I think of my casino in a bubble, there are players that play only cash, players that play only tournaments and some that play both. Very few are accomplished at both. There are quite a few successful tournament players at our casino who dabble in cash. Of these, in general, they are far less aggressive and more straightforward than the successful cash game players. It sounds like you are a smart thinking player, my prediction is if you want to, you will figure it out and adapt.

maybe it is time to reread professional no limit hold em

and I ordered the tri nyguyen books ( two of them, exploiting regulars and crushing micro and small stakes)

Plus I still never read HOH:cash game.... half of one none of two

The quick answer is they are 2 different games. Although the rules are the same they play very differently. I started on tournamemts and then transitioned to cash and litterally got taken to the cleaners for a while until i adjusted.
Main difference is there is no increasing blind structure. This means you are under no pressure to get it in with top pair like in tournament plus you can rebuy at any time.
Hands you wouldnt bother with in tournament are worth playing in cash like medium sc etc.
The strength of the hand you need to call all in with increase in cash. When the money goes in its sets v straights etc. The fish stack off with tptk vs our 2 gapper straights for example.
Think of it as making a series of small investments to hit just a couple of big hands a night which is all you need to make money.
As stated by someone else tourney players are normally tight whereas the best cash players are loose, dependant on stack size, opponents, position etc.
The Harrington series about cash games are a good read.

I hear ya, I'm not looking to be the greatest cash game playing ever, just good enough to keep me in tournaments. I think both are great way to make money, Some would say tourneys are a lot more lucrative, I would agree. Cash games are a way to make a living.

Hoping to get good enough to average 45-60 an hour maybe more with a combo of 1-2 and 2-5

tracking?

what kind of software do you use to track live cash games.

or ust excel

buy in+-cashout=x/hours played for hourly rate

Your winrate is more suited for a 2/5 and 5/10 mix.

I use Pokerjournal for iphone

but what else should you be tracking

I did well grinding online small and mid stakes mtts for a living. tbh there isn't much difference. Preflop raise sizes are so big in live 1/2nl + there are often straddles and the flop generally has 3 players so that effectively ur almost playing the equivalent of a 25-40bb stack because the spr is so small often.

Here's an example.

I raise to 20 pf in a straddled pot, get a caller, pot is 43. Say one guy has 100 behind on the flop. Ur basically stickin it in on the flop w/tp or a good draw quite often. Thats quite a bit like opening w/20bb stack for 2.2 and getting called. The pot is roughly 6bb and we got 18bb.

I thought it'd be a bigger adjustment moving from online mtts to live cash, but actually I have yet to find an online cash game that is softer then the average 1/2nl live game at the casino I play.

I haven't changed my game from my deepish stacked mtt game. I would guess u weren't killing online lo and middle stakes mtts if ur having problems playing live 1/2nl.

My guess is ur limp/calling alot oop w/speculative hands which is spewing money.

I'll see if they have it for blackberry when I get home or I'm sure theres something like it

Cash games are more lucrative, and steadier. Yeah you can get a good bink on mtt but i once heard someone say 'cash for dough (money in uk), tourneys for show.
If i were you i'd get online and practice a ton at the lower limits (assuming you can still as you are US so not sure what the score is regards online there now?)
Live cash games are much softer imo (in UK anyway). A good table dynamic is like 4-5 sharks and 4-5 'fun players' (read fish)
Avoid the sharks and play with the fish as this is where 90% of your money comes from. You can just play abc, dont try anything fancy for a bit and you should show a steady profit. Games 5/10 and up get increasingly more difficult and you'll get outplayed if you're not used to them/scared money etc. Just stick to 1/2 until you're winning consistently.

deuceseven, honestly I dont know if I'm ahead or behind in cash..

just for some reason I remember losing cash sessions for a long time. I killed it at flamingo... maybe I just need more confidence.. I don't have my mind wrapped around cash game the way I do small and middle stake tournaments.

The last mega stack series I did very well, rio I won or chopped 5 out of 7 tourneys while in vegas. My ballys toureny and TI werent good, but I came home 3k ahead. While sending out my brother and buying him into tournaments.

I think my win rate was down a little because I was drinking into the early morning sleeping 5 hours drinking an amp or monster and starting all over again.

I'll be at the summer classics in september I'll tell you how I do. I have a backer for someone in my unit. FOr every noon tournament from the 11to the fiftenth. After that its on me as of now,

Can't wait to play the summer classic championship

Maybe I just thought there was something I should be doing and second guessing myself.

Oh u were talking about live mtts. Too small of a sample size to say ur a great lo and middle stakes mtt player.

shipemdonks, I hear ya and that was my plan, I suppose nl2/5 will start when i can beat 1/2 with no problems.

I was on vacation drinking while playing cash that was partly my problem. I wont be doing that when I'm playing for a living while going to school

pokah blows

what is a realistic 1-2 rate about 20-25 an hour?

When i first started playing poker, I played online MTTs and SNGs almost exclusively. The first time I tried switching to cash I lost a ton. Now I'm doing much better. I think the reason is that in tournaments the end game and short stack play is so much more important than the early game deep stack play. In cash it's the opposite.

A few adjustments I had to make:
Being smarter about c-bets when I miss the flop. I was used to c-betting 80-90% in MTTs since people fold a lot more. In cash people can rebuy if they guess wrong. Live cash players don't like folding and call much more frequently. So if I whiff the flop and the flop hits what I perceive as villain's range I slow down.

3-bets are much tighter. In tourneys you need to occasionally 3-bet and 4-bet light and can identify the opponents who are 3-betting light against you. In cash games, at least where I play, 3-bets are fairly rare and represent a very tight range. 4-bets are almost always KK+. Calling a 3-bet OOP without a monster is usually a mistake.

Bigger bet sizes. I have found that bet sizes in tourneys are smaller than bet sizes in cash. In tourneys some villains fold to c-bets that are less than 1/2 pot. Live that is rarely going to thin the field. People will call much larger bets with much smaller pieces of the flop. Choose your bet size appropriately. Most villains don't exploit your bet sizing tells because they aren't paying enough attention and are thinking level 1.

Limping In tournaments I almost never limp. In cash if you have position and a good implied odds hand (SCs, small PPs) you are better off limping to get a large stack to pot ratio than raising.

Reverse Implied Odds. In tourneys it is rarely correct to fold premium pairs to pressure. In cash when you are deep, you have to be more willing to let go of one pair hands. Pot control to protect your stack is often more important than charging draws.

More Multi-way pots. In tournaments it's rare to get more than 3 to a flop. In cash games it is common to see flops 5 and 6 ways. You need much stronger hands to continue and bluffing becomes much less effective since someone probably has at least some piece of the board.

This.^^^

Also, I found I really had to turn down the aggression with TPTK hands when I switched to cash. Unless you're against a station, they are not good for 3 streets of bets. The other big adjustment is bet sizing. 2-5 is an easier transition, since the bet sizing is more similar to online or tournaments. 1/2 is wierd, with abnormaly larg PF bets and abnormally small (as ratio to pot) post flop bets.

fold blinds,you dont need to defend them.

I can relate and I hope I can help you here. I have been trying to transition to cash for a while now. I only play part time when I can but your experience is common in that cash is a very difficlut transition. I have put in my lumps over the past year at 3/5 and now I think I'm making good strides.

I decided to dedicate myself to cash....I play very few tournies now. Most small and midstakes tournies have deep structures to start and after an hour or 2 hands almost play themselves due to the blinds and <30 BB stacks (more often <20 in low stakes tournies). As others have said, learning to play 100BB> stacks is much much harder.

What has made the difference for me: I'm not a nit but when the money goes on I have the nuts or close to it. Players are not stacking off with 1 pair type hands in cash (unless AA vs. KK pre). Don't worry about outplaying anyone and make your hands and you will get paid. IMO you should dedicate yourself to cash for a few months. Play 1-2 and if you beat it easily and are rolled for 2/5 then move on. I watched videos and read books but experience is the only answer. (I don't even have the option of 1-2....I had to learn at 3/5 which is much tougher, especially when 5-10 only runs 1 day a week and 3/5 draws some really good players at my casino)

Edit: Clubbers post nailed it.

Good luck!