1/2
Hero is young tag with stack at 400 has table covered utg +1

V young white new to table no reads MP

Pre flop 1 limp to hero who has AQd makes it 12. 4 callers

Flop 60 Ac 5d 4c
Hero leads for 40 v calls everyone else folds

Turn 140 9c hero checks v checks

River 140 Kh hero bets 75. too thin?

I think I bet smaller ~$50 to get crying calls from small aces

Or even make it exactly same as flop bet. V was happy calling $40 presumably with AX on the flop. Board is scarier now so why push our luck beyond what we know he was happy to call earlier?

Because of pot odds.

I like 50-65.

it doesn't matter how much you have if you cover everyone else.
It matters how much everyone else has so that we know what the effective stacks are.
Ducy?


River bet is fine in principle. Might be a little bit big in practice.

River is a clear value bet, sizing may depend on V stack. Otherwise I'd go $50-$55 w/o reads.

I like $60 (weak Ax) or $225 (bluffing QQ obvy)

check/call is a valid option here too, imo...

however, the most likely flush draws (KcXc) are checking back so much, that I think it still gives an advantage to bet/decide lines.

I think $75 is too ambitious. $45-50 guarantees calls from other aces + the occasionally call from KcXc hands.

*edit - i thought clubs missed. yeah, don't c/c

I think I bet/fold the turn, and no idea why people think the river is too big.

Preflop, flop & river bets are good, on the turn I would definitely bet thought and bet it big, If he calls than I just want to see a showdown, if he raises I'm probably done with the hand.

I like it, what are you doing if he bets the river?

Sent from my SM-G920V using 2+2 Forums

Granted but what if, hypothetically, you had a read V was unaware of pot odds and just saw bets in $ terms?

I think we lose value if we x/f river. X/c is ...ummm...optimistic.

I bet turn as well. We can get value from stubborn Ax who may have picked up clubs.

Did I miss v's stack size? River bet sizing will be dependent on that. Looks fine in a vacuum.

I like how you played this hand, including the sizing on the river. The fact that it's a 1/2 game, this guy called an ep raise and it went 5 ways to the flop should be enough to tell you that it is unlikely this player is the type to fold any A after the turn checks through, so long as you keep it around half-pot. If anything, I would size a hair larger, but I don't think you lose too much value with your sizing.

If he folds, I'm guessing he had 76, and sometimes he'll call you with 2p or raise with a slowplayed flush, but more than half the time he calls he's going to have Ax that you beat.

I bet in vacuum. However this is pretty much a combo question. Too lazy but can someone run the combos with reasonable calling ranges and if we're good 50% +

Me too.

For those who are checking OTT, what is your reasoning/plan for the hand?

If give him all of the Ax I'm pretty sure it's going to be b/e ish.

Even if it's below b/e I still think it's better than c/c'ing because we have more equity vs. the typical 1/2 players calling range than their betting range. Betting also lets us set the price.

If he checks behind every flush and never raises a set or 2P on the flop, then we should c/f. Assuming he's calling very wide preflop and he's not folding an A he's giving us action with:
AKo-ATo, AQs-A2s, 76cc, 87cc, 86cc, 85cc, T8cc, T7cc, JTcc, J8cc, QJcc, QTcc, Q8cc, KQcc-K8cc, 55, 44, 54s

So we're getting called by worse about 40% of the time.

This is a very loose preflop range, obviously, but what's more important than the number of hands he plays preflop is the ratio of Ax to flushes. If he's playing K8s, I think it's almost certain that he's playing A2s, so this range is more likely to give him too many flushes than too many Ax, so long as we get the number of offsuit Ax correct.

If he raises flop 1/2 of the time with 2P, every time with a set and checks behind half of his flushes on the turn, which is a lot more reasonable IMO, then we're ahead 59% of the time when called.

This is a thinner spot than I originally thought, but I still think this play has to be profitable, though I now agree with earlier posters that we should size very small relative to the pot (like $50-60) to make sure he never folds Ax, because if he does then we're losing money.

this. put in a couple of obscenely valuey bets and your table image is gold, setting up other plays.

So we can pot control to our liking and then fire out a ridiculous bluffy looking over bet value bet on the river and get looked up by almost all Ax.

Get three streets of value with only two rounds of betting and enticing villain to call more often since the over bet river bet will be the final round of betting.

may be too early for me to accurately tell but maybe raise more pre? you only want 1-2 callers. this hand, your looking to get value from ax or kx maybe a BIT smaller but this is player dependant also. some call more, some call less. in a vacuum i might bet 1/2psb

Too many clubs in your range IMO, given V checked back OTT.

It's an interesting line. Around here, generally speaking, the fish snap off medium sized bets and fold to big bets. In this spot an overbet gives Ax an excuse to fold and value owns us hard IMO.

If V bet OTT you were planning on peeling and c/f-ing OTR if he bet again?

We aren't representing enough bluffs when we bomb the river unless we think V is a massive donk just assumes a giant bet is a bluff because "it looks like we're trying to get him to fold" or unless he thinks we're a massive donk who's leading a range wider than strong Ax, fds, 76s and 98dd into 4 people.

I have all the clubs in his range because I was trying to find a worse case scenario.

The second situation where he bets half the flushes in the first range is a conservative scenario from our perspective that shows that we need to bet river for value because we're ahead ~60% when called.

On the turn we have a clear c/f if he makes it more than half pot. He may occasionally turn a hand like AJ into a bluff on accident, but when he bets this turn we're almost always against hands that we have 0% equity against.

Reading fail on my part.

I think our hand is too good to fold OTT against a lot of players, especially ''young white guys''.

Kind of optimistic, but I think a reasonably aggressive player can be peeling OTF, betting OTT with tons of stuff:

Board: 5dAc4c9c
Equity Win Tie
UTG+1 56.74% 55.00% 1.73% { AdQd }
MP1 43.26% 41.53% 1.73% { QQ-99, 44-22, A2s+, K5s-K2s, 75s+, 65s, 54s, KcQc, KcJc, QcJc, KcTc, QcTc, JcTc, Kc9c, Qc9c, Jc9c, Tc9c, Kc8c, Qc8c, Jc8c, Tc8c, 9c8c, Kc7c, Jc7c, Tc7c, 9c7c, Kc6c, 8c6c, 4c3c, A2o+ }