Sup ya’ll! Typically, we have questions about unmade hands, or speculative hands that are 2nd nuts or lower. However, this scenario is with the nuts and getting value from it.

Stakes: $1/3 NL

Hero’s hand: K♦️J♦️
Stack: $300

{ Villian (CO): An older man, 60 years or older, sat down with $300 1 hand ago. So, I don’t have much info. about him. Possible NIT?)

——————————————
PreFlop
UTG: limp
UTG+2: limp
CO (Villian): OPEN $10
BU (Hero): CALL
UTG: CALL
UTG+2: CALL
——————————————
4 Players to Flop
Pot: $37 ($43 - $6 rake)

Flop: A♦️Q♣️3♦️
UTG: CHECK
UTG+2: CHECK
CO: BET $25
BU: CALL
UTG: FOLD
UTG+2: FOLD

Pot: $86 ($25 + $25 - $1 rake)
——————————————
Turn: T♠️
CO: BET $35
BU: CALL

Pot: $156
——————————————
River: Q♦️

CO: CHECK
BU: $130
CO: ....
——————————————
My initial thought process was that, if a brick fell on the River, Villian would most likely put in another bet. At which point I could min. raise for value. The turn was most possibly the best street for value because it completed my straight.

My questions are:

- Did I loose value by smooth calling the Turn?
- Could I have gotten more value somewhere?
- How should I have sized my bet on the river?

he's possibly a nit, but also he's possibly a slag too then so the point is we don't really know...that's a 3bet opportunity for sure pre. I hardly ever flat pre unless it's a setmine or a miltiway hand with multiple players.

I don't think you lost value by calling the turn. We don't wanna fold ppl our rly when we have the nuts. You could have bet 100 otf bc once he checked he's either got nothing or he's afraid of the flush. We need to look at him, and remember how he's played in the past, and make a bet you think he would call.

For such a small price I can get behind the preflop call since we know this will be going multiway and we'll be in position with a nice multiway hand. Just as long as we're able to fold postflop quickly with just TP against the preflop raiser (cuz we're often dominated).

I'm also just calling the flop. Obviously we have a big draw with lots of equity but this board should smash a tighter preflop raising range, so our FE should be low and we're cool with inviting others to pad the pot behind us.

I'm raising the turn. This guy can easily have a second best monster that he's never going to fold; heck, his minimum hand is probably TPGK + gutshot. So lets build the pot before a craptastic scare card comes that could shut down action (any diamond, any broadway card).

Expecting tighter older guys to continue betting the river with just TP is a real misread of how they (and most in general) play, imo. They're fine with betting TP on early streets to charge the draws, but once the river card comes they're often checking (both in and out of position) far more often they are betting (let alone when that river card is scary, which this one is).

I'd probably bet/fold no more than $100 on the river, maybe even $75. We're targetting AK/AJ and don't want them to fold thinking we have the flush or Qx. If he raises, we're toast and can safely fold.

Glostbigvalueontheturn,imoG

otr***

Pre is fine. You absolutely must raise the turn.

Isn't this a prime example for a hand where we can play IP multiway? The only way for that hand not to go to the flop 4-6 way is somebody 3betting.

I'm raising the turn. He bet into 3 players on the flop and fired again on the turn, odds are he has a hand he likes. I don't want for that to change on a river he dislikes which might be close to half the deck.

Of course, but it's just heads up atm. He raised and we're next to act. Granted, we don't think anyone would 3bet, but how do we know everyone else is gonna call?

Yeah, it's 1/3 and just 10 bucks so flatting is ok but 3betting is more standard (unless we were already multiway of course)

Preflop could go either way, 3bet or call. The small open sizing from V is a bit interesting. I would not expect this size to generate any fold equity from the limpers. If V had gone to $15+, there is at least a chance the first limper might fold. But this sizing looks like a pot sweetener raise. Unlikely that V has TT+. He might have AK/AQ if he’s a nit. He could have 77-99. He could have a suited Broadway or suited connector.

Anyway, given the above, even against a tighter V, I think a 3bet is fine. But against a tighter V my default is probably still to call, expecting the limpers to call as well almost always. Our hand plays well multi-way, especially in position.

Flop is fine.

Turn: At this point you’re praying for the flush to not complete. Best to get value before it might. Also it’s gonna be tough to get stacks in without a raise here. Definitely a must raise spot.

AP on river, I’d go smaller. Maybe 100. Maybe even smaller. Looks like V has AK/AJ. Bet an amount that you think will induce a cry call. $130 is def too large.

Only 2 out of 4 players left have to call to go to the flop 4-way.

Re the two limpers, I think there are 3 options:
- super bad players: I want to play that hand, otherwise I wouldn't have limped
- less bad players: It's only 7 bucks more
- everyone else: I'm getting 4.3:1 on the call (or 7.5:1 for the last guy if everybody else called)

I'm not advocating against 3betting, that's definitely a valid option. Just saying there's a 99%+ chance the hand goes to the flop multiway after we call as long as nobody 3bets.

Then when you call with that in mind, everyone folds and we're left heads up and even though we have position it's still not a very good spot to be in...it's just a bad habit imho. I also didn't realize this was 6 handed, so I would be even more inclined to 3bet.

The second I see both limpers fold, I get ready to leave after the hand anyway.

How did you come up with 6-handed? I see UTG, UTG+2, CO and BU in the hand. Unless there’s no SB or no BB or no UTG+1, we’re at least 7 handed. And that would already mean UTG+2 sits next to CO which would be kinda odd.

True it's at least 7 handed

It doesn't matter how many people are at the table. We should be three betting the exact same range vs a CO open as we would if it was 4 handed and CO/UTG opened.

Not raising turn is close to as big of a mistake as you can make at llsnl. Hes old and raised pre then bet two streets. He has a hand he's not folding. Get the money in

As for pre I'm mostly 3betting here but flatting some is obv fine too

Thanks for all the great responses guys. ��

Just to clarify, this is a 9-Handed game.

PreFlop:

- Bet sizing of Villian: Some of you pointed out that the low open size of Villian was more of a pot sweetener, thus villian’s hand must be weak. From my experience at this low of a limit (2+ years), the majority of players lack the consideration of increasing open sizes in accordance to how many players have limped. So, players tend to open at their ideal amount no matter: position, other action, etc.

- Calling or 3-Betting in-position with KJs: I don’t have any problems calling here and seeing a flop multi-way with suited high cards. I’m never 3-Betting a (what seems to be a) NIT, typically, I could still be easily dominated with AK or AJ. Flop: I’m willing to fold top pair to 2 barrels from him.

Turn:

- Thanks to many suggestions, I now realize I lost value on this street. I should have “pumped up the jam” so to speak. This was definitely the money maker betting round.

I've also made the mistake of slowplaying nut or near-nut hands on the turn and not extracting much value on the river either.

Sometimes the turn is where you're going to get paid and you're going to get a lot of check/folds on the river.

If an opponent is willing to bet multiple streets, they're probably willing to call a raise on the turn. If they don't, they probably weren't betting/calling river anyway.