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getting aggro in position getting aggro in position

04-18-2014 , 12:57 PM
1/2NL home game
limp happy table
in my first orbit villain limped w several other limpers. I made it 18 to go w AA. 2 callers. i fired 1/3 pot bet on 334 flop and won the pot.

villain is a late 30s female POW who tends to play poker like bingo.

Hero (350) and a TAG image. haven't shown a hand down yet.
Villain has ~200

several limpers hero raises to 15 from CO w K8
villain calls from bb
2 limpers call

flop($63) K34
villain leads $5
one caller
hero raises to $35
villain calls
all others fold

turn($138) K347
villain leads for $15 with ~140ish behind

Hero?
What do you think? fold? raise? flat?
thoughts on all streets are welcomed.
If we call what should be our plan for
brick rivers?
an 8?
a K?

i will post my action later
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 01:05 PM
Vs bet sizing is really strange. Have you seen her do this in previous hands?
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 02:14 PM
As stupid as it seems, I think you need to flat the $5 on the flop. Raising here defines her range as a lot that beats you, and she's never folding even K9....she hit bingo after all.

flat calling on the flop, and the turn, means we are getting huge odds with our top pair. Also it creates more opportunities to get huge value when we spike an 8 while minimizing the payoff to a better King
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 02:21 PM
It seems obvious and likely that V does not really have any idea what she is doing.

AP I would just call and call her 30$ bet on the river
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontworkhere
As stupid as it seems, I think you need to flat the $5 on the flop. Raising here defines her range as a lot that beats you, and she's never folding even K9....she hit bingo after all.

flat calling on the flop, and the turn, means we are getting huge odds with our top pair. Also it creates more opportunities to get huge value when we spike an 8 while minimizing the payoff to a better King

I agree with this. Take the great odds with TP. What's your image at the table? If aggro image, Villain might be choosing strange bet sizing with a nutted hand to seem weaker and try do induce aggression from Hero. If her lead is a blocker with some type of draw/middle pair, our kicker's not strong enough to play back on all streets..
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrochaos
Vs bet sizing is really strange. Have you seen her do this in previous hands?
this was the first time i saw her do this. Since it was such a weak bet i decided to just proceed like I was checked to and bet 1/2 pot. when she called it narrowed her range. then the lead ott i figured i could not be very much at all. but > 10:1 odds i felt like i could not fold. does this thinking make sense?
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 04:58 PM
Maybe definitions of "pay-off wizard" vary but against this player I'm never raising flop. When a POW bets out, they tend to have it. Their definition of "it" is somewhat unpredictable and we will be ahead some of the time (they might just be randomly bluffing - or at least, doing their approximation of bluffing) but when someone whose natural game is checking and calling starts leading out, I'm kind of pooping myself. Raising becomes out of the question unless I've got a true monster, and I'm starting to look for ways I can fold.
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaffer
Maybe definitions of "pay-off wizard" vary but against this player I'm never raising flop. When a POW bets out, they tend to have it. Their definition of "it" is somewhat unpredictable and we will be ahead some of the time (they might just be randomly bluffing - or at least, doing their approximation of bluffing) but when someone whose natural game is checking and calling starts leading out, I'm kind of pooping myself. Raising becomes out of the question unless I've got a true monster, and I'm starting to look for ways I can fold.
So are you folding ott here?
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatsme
So are you folding ott here?
Not for that small of a bet. I talk myself into a call, but it's a bit reluctant. There's too much of a chance that they're just doing something weird and random with a worse hand. But that chance isn't so great that I'm even remotely thinking about a raise.
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 08:07 PM
POWs do not bet, they call.

I agree with calling this down. If she has you beat, she's going to bet super small and then make a ridiculous bet on the river. I'm happy with a win with TPWK. If someone called with 56 or 52, congrats if they hit.
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 09:29 PM
all right seems like we are on basically the same page here. in game I flat her turn bet.

River($168) K3478
villain leads for $15 with ~125ish behind

call or raise?
if you raise how much?
getting aggro in position Quote
04-18-2014 , 09:45 PM
based on your read and the play so far, this looks a lot like a pair of Kings, possibly two pair, or a set. I need some more info about her pre-flop range. If her range out of the blinds includes any King, then we should raise, since we just pulled way ahead of most of her hands. If she's only calling pre-flop with KJ+ and AK, then I'd strongly suspect a set and just call on the river.
getting aggro in position Quote
04-19-2014 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontworkhere
based on your read and the play so far, this looks a lot like a pair of Kings, possibly two pair, or a set. I need some more info about her pre-flop range. If her range out of the blinds includes any King, then we should raise, since we just pulled way ahead of most of her hands. If she's only calling pre-flop with KJ+ and AK, then I'd strongly suspect a set and just call on the river.
i would say her preflop range includes all broadway and probably all scs. i think she raises AA and KK but would not be surprised to see her try and slow play these hands.
getting aggro in position Quote
04-19-2014 , 10:43 AM
You guys are way overthinking a situation where you're up against someone "playing poker like bingo." Like Shaffer said, she has a hand she likes enough to bet, but what range that could be is so bizarre sometimes that you end up leveling yourself trying to figure it out. TPWK facing these bets is a clear call down. When we river top two pair now it gets more interesting. If this is literally the first time she's ever fired a bet on her own, then I think I keep calling. If she's been known to bet on occasion, then that widens her range just enough to make this a value shove.
getting aggro in position Quote

      
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