Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Fun with with AJ Fun with with AJ

06-06-2015 , 06:37 AM
$1/2 NL

Hero is tight, but has a bluffy image and got caught bluffing a few times. One time on a AQ64 board that was checked around he bet the turn, then bluffed the river and got called by a 6 lol. Hero hasn´t won a pot in a long long time.

Villian is a loose. Pretty sure he has stolen a bunch of pots postflop when nobody seemed interested. One time, at band camp, he opened A8s for $12 in CO.

Hero has AJ

EP limper, hero (covers) opens for $15, Villian ($150)calls on button, blinds fold

Frop ($27) A98

Hero checks, villain bets $15, hero calls

Turn ($53) A:

Hero checks, villain bets 35, Hero tanks and then shoves.

If the turn wasn´t an A or a J I woulda check/called prolly.

Maybe WGAF, meh.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-06-2015 , 10:32 AM
Since you decided to let him bluff/value bet a worse hand on flop I would just call turn despite drawy board.

Trouble is AK-AQ A9 and A8 are all beating you, AJ is chopping, sometimes he has a boat already, or JT/76/T7/QT/QJ/65 in hearts for a draw with a lot of equity.

Of the hands that can call a shove you only properly crush AT and A7-A2. He probably only plays the smaller ones in their suited versions and they are all in hearts so have a lot of equity against you. The big AX are more likely played offsuit so he has more AK-AJ than AT-A2 anyway.

Overall I think your shove just isn't huge EV whereas calling lets him bluff with his busted FDs on river and can easily win if he checks behind you on river. Not the time to go for his stack I think.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-06-2015 , 12:58 PM
I like it, if and only if:
1. You saw the Villains cards and he has 98
2. He didn't see the turn card

Otherwise I have no idea what you're doing. Are you value-betting, bluffing, or ???
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-06-2015 , 02:16 PM
Yeah seems pretty bad. I'd ck/call with the intention of ck/calling the river too. When you shove his calling range crushes you, atleast by check calling if he is bluffing you get the maximum out of him.

Maybe even consider folding the river if he shoves depending on your read but don't think I could get myself to fold at the table.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-06-2015 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragequit99
Since you decided to let him bluff/value bet a worse hand on flop I would just call turn despite drawy board.

Trouble is AK-AQ A9 and A8 are all beating you, AJ is chopping, sometimes he has a boat already, or JT/76/T7/QT/QJ/65 in hearts for a draw with a lot of equity.
I think he raises AK pre a lot. Definitely can have and call with AQ-AT, and smaller suited aces, all the suited connectors in hearts down to 54, QQ-88, T9s, 98s.

So I poker stoved it, giving full weight to AK. AJ is a 52% favorite. I don't have to deal with RIO on the river if a heart comes, but I lose value if he would bluff a missed flush draw when checked to on the river.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-06-2015 , 07:16 PM
Good way to fold out most of the hands you're beating and get called by everything that has you drawing close to dead.

Also known as a horrific play.

C/c all the way, except c/shove J or A river
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-07-2015 , 10:48 AM
Your flop play and turn play contradict each other.

On the flop, you decide to c/c, presumably because you believe villain's tendency to bet at weakness outweighs your bluffy image and ability to get value. That's fine, but if that's the case, then why are you shoving the turn? Just keep calling and let him keep bluffing.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-07-2015 , 06:18 PM
Agree totally with rahzero - I'm a huge fan of making a plan and sticking to it unless new evidence to the contrary forcefully presents itself mid execution.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-07-2015 , 08:39 PM
I appreciate the comments. In the hand I didn't think villian was strong and didn't think he was folding many hands there against me with only $85 behind to win $300.
Results:
Spoiler:
villian tank for 1min, calls w. KhQh
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-07-2015 , 09:08 PM
It always cracks me up when people raise to say I have an A and then check.

If I were you I would have bet the flop. How you played it, I would have led the turn because any A would probably ship or at least give you action. I'm gonna guess V folded when you shipped.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSlick2006
It always cracks me up when people raise to say I have an A and then check.
From EP I open something like 77+ AQ+ ATs+ KTs+ QTs+ JTs. Probably isolate a single limper with pretty much the same range.

That's 95 combos with card removal effects after this flop hits. Of those 95 combos 36 contain an Ace (or two). So 62% of the time I raise "to say I have an Ace" I don't actually have an Ace.

We do need to check flops we hit sometimes so that we have a check/continue range. Otherwise observant players will realise we're always folding after we check and will make so much money stealing pots from us postflop that they'll never be under any pressure to play against us when we do hit. That way they can pick and choose when their chips go in.

We also cant only use one type of hand for our check/continue range e.g. Only using draws. IMO we should use a mix of all types of hand strength against observant opponents. I don't do it often but sometimes I will check drawy boards with made hands vs some opponents.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
I appreciate the comments. In the hand I didn't think villian was strong and didn't think he was folding many hands there against me with only $85 behind to win $300.
Results:
Spoiler:
villian tank for 1min, calls w. KhQh
$85 to win $200
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 09:04 AM
He can clearly have a lot of weak hands/draws on this board, so allowing him to bet is completely fine. Additionally, you should be check/calling at least one street with TT-KK on this board, and given the turn a check/call would be appropriate as well, and check/deciding on the river. Since you x/c the flop, a x/c on the turn looks like your range is very capped and might induce a shove on the river if you checked again.

At first I thought the turn shove was bad as well, but before I say that I would have to ask if you're check/calling ANY river? I don't know if it's correct to check/fold any heart river given the effective pot size, stack sizes, and the fact that V could have JT, 67 or potentially air.

So, if we're paying off any draw that completes on the river, we would have to justify it by assuming V would shove the river and not just check back and save his remaining $85 - because now there's value in us not shoving the turn.

As everybody has already said, a turn shove would not be for value, but it's not terrible to shove the turn to deny draws free equity. I think the answer on whether to check/call the turn and river or to check/shove the turn depends on whether or not you think V is going to shove his busted draws/air on the river (which I don't know myself, for many reasons including the fact that your range looks capped in this spot). So that's the read you should be looking for in this spot, IMO.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
$1/2 NL

Hero has AJ

EP limper, hero (covers) opens for $15, Villian ($150)calls on button, blinds fold

Frop ($27) A98

Hero checks, villain bets $15, hero calls

Turn ($53) A:

Hero checks, villain bets 35, Hero tanks and then shoves.

If the turn wasn´t an A or a J I woulda check/called prolly.

Maybe WGAF, meh.

Grunching:

Fold the turn. There is very little he can have that doesn't have you crushed. Hero's flop bet should very credible. I doubt he stuck around with air or small/mid pairs that didn't become sets.

His preflop call might have been a little light given his position, but he is mostly calling with aces better than yours. Most of the other aces binked boats on the turn as did the pp's that should still be there.

FD's and SD's are numerous and possible. Most 1/2 V's are just going to take the free card though. I don't think hero can call unless he has seen V get aggro with draws. It's a bad spot to do it too with hero obviously holding an A and stacks being short. Maybe if V exclusively focuses on his cards and attacks any small weakness with draws... I haven't seen many who do this.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $FishWreck$
Grunching:

Fold the turn. There is very little he can have that doesn't have you crushed. Hero's flop bet should very credible. I doubt he stuck around with air or small/mid pairs that didn't become sets.

His preflop call might have been a little light given his position, but he is mostly calling with aces better than yours. Most of the other aces binked boats on the turn as did the pp's that should still be there.

FD's and SD's are numerous and possible. Most 1/2 V's are just going to take the free card though. I don't think hero can call unless he has seen V get aggro with draws. It's a bad spot to do it too with hero obviously holding an A and stacks being short. Maybe if V exclusively focuses on his cards and attacks weakness with draws... I haven't seen many who do this.
Not to bash on you, but the majority of this is flat out incorrect - at least it is in my experience of grinding 1/2 live. Hero can easily be check/folding a large chunk of his opening range on this board - even hands as weak as T9 would bet the flop if for no other reason than to deny hands like KQ free equity. When hero shows weakness it's very likely for many hands (including draws) to barrel the turn.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 01:27 PM
My thought was hands like KQo wouldn't be sticking around after the flop, and hero is crushed by everything but the draws. (Who cold calls 10% of their stack with a small suited ace pre?) You're right that folding is probably wrong though - there are just so many draws.

The 1/3 game I play in is extremely nitty and passive compared to what most of you see. The guys who aggressively bet their draws stick out. The local 3/5 is a totally different story.

Last edited by $FishWreck$; 06-09-2015 at 01:35 PM.
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 02:30 PM
nice read
Fun with with AJ Quote
06-09-2015 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by $FishWreck$
My thought was hands like KQo wouldn't be sticking around after the flop, and hero is crushed by everything but the draws. (Who cold calls 10% of their stack with a small suited ace pre?) You're right that folding is probably wrong though - there are just so many draws.

The 1/3 game I play in is extremely nitty and passive compared to what most of you see. The guys who aggressively bet their draws stick out. The local 3/5 is a totally different story.
Yeah obv KQ would be check/folding the flop, I was just saying that V could easily have mid pair on this board and be betting the flop to protect his equity/see where he's at. Once hero calls, the majority of hero's range is usually TT-KK, maybe T9s thats peeling one street, along with some draws himself like JT - a lot of which will fold to a second barrel on the turn. I can see why you'd say that though if your 1/3 game plays very nitty/passive, the games at my casino can play like that on let's say... a thursday morning, but a friday/saturday evening is completely different.

And it's not at all uncommon in 1/2 games for people to call 5x opens with any suited ace, especially in position. Not saying it's good, but that's why we're posting in a live poker section instead of online 1/2 section where people play properly defined ranges.
Fun with with AJ Quote

      
m