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Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep

05-04-2016 , 04:51 PM
Hero is a 24 college kid, been drinking and giving off rec player vibes other than my play which has been standard TAG.

Villain is a 30's WG, possibly a pro. Playing well from what I can see. Hero & villain have about 10 hours of play, villain has a tight almost nitty image.

$950 eff, villain covers.

UTG limps (loose/gambly middle-aged Asian guy)
Hero limps next in with 5 5
Villain makes it $25 from MP1
BTN (bad 50's WG reg who overvalues hands) calls
limper calls
hero calls

4 players to the flop

Flop ($100) 6 5 2

All check. Could go either way between leading and c/r here but figured with 2 more to act I would go for c/r. In hindsight given the loose/passive nature of table I should probably just bomb this flop.

Ranging V on broadways that missed, I think he's giving up here the vast majority of the time.

Turn ($100) 6 5 2 6

UTG checks, Hero bets $60, villain calls, rest fold.

River ($220) 6 5 2 6 A

Hero bets $140. Villain raises to $500.

Hero?

Such a ***** strange line I am having a hard time coming up with a hand range that V takes this line with and I'm drawing a blank. I will post my thoughts on his range and what action I think is best after there are some responses in order to get unbiased responses.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:04 PM
Jam
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:08 PM
So weird. Can't imagine he checked AA OTF or raised A6 pre, checked flop and just called turn. Don't think he raises AK OTR. I'd call but wouldn't be surprised if he showed 66.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:12 PM
A nitty TAG raises another TAG on the river on a paired board? Your hand is so under-repped it's very tough to fold, but I see no point in raising.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:18 PM
Does he have the propensity to check overpairs in this spot?

Such an odd line i couldnt see him checking any value hands on the flop but now hes trying to rep AA or A6ss.
I guess given he seems nitty, just fold.

Your percieved range should be polarized, so he probably wouldn't turn a bluff-catcher into a bluff
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:21 PM
I don't see why he couldn't check OTF with an OP. Not orthodox - but he's got 3 callers - one of whom could have FD, and a loose gambly guy that could have nailed the flop.
Maybe the plan is to take a card off with the OP and look for a brick before committing more chips.

When you lead the paired 6 OTT - he's probably discounting 6x, and has you on mid-overpair or combo draw. And 55 22 are def in your range. He could still have OP - but calling here eliminates AK from his range.

OTR - he's got to have you on a busted draw or big hand, I think. Hard to fold - but from 'tight - almost nitty' - I think he's on AA/
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 05:27 PM
I missed the nitty description but i still think i prefer a jam
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 06:11 PM
lead flop fyi

And call river as played.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 06:33 PM
Im leading this flop for multiple reasons...

-It'll get checked around most of the time given this board texture and MW pot unless your read is that PFR/Villain is super agro. Hate letting villain's realize equity for free.

-I don't like x-raising frankly given the SPR (we are 900 effective yes). We are going to shut down on any club and str8 turns and vs. a good villain he will be able to bet and take it away when the pot is big/put us to a tough decision... although sometimes we can go for thin value/overplay on some cards vs. certain villains with wider calling ranges

Don't like ur line OTF... HU im more likely to x-raise actually.


AP, im all-in... we lose to what AA's full of sixes? Given your reads is this villain going to check back AA here in this spot? We are so ahead of villain's value range in this spot, don't call we are never behind... Will worse call our 3-bet jam here maybe... he prolly did overplay whatever Ax hand he raised the river with "for value"
^Has villain overplayed any hands in any spots yet/going for thin value in bad spots etc... or he is "actually good" lmao.

We are under repped and if you say he is "actually good" why the fk would we fold here.

Last edited by Evoxgsr96; 05-04-2016 at 06:40 PM.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 06:53 PM
It is very plausible that villain check backed AA on the flop
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrubs
It is very plausible that villain check backed AA on the flop
Yeah such a weird fkn value line by villain it does seem like AA like what else would he raise with if he doesn't overplay his hands here (sad), but theoretically we should never be behind!

Im still AI if it's AA it's just a cooler bro. He had 2 outs lol.

Why would anyone have a checking range on that flop w/AA lol its not as worse as T89s...
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 08:04 PM
call river
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 08:05 PM
I am capable of playing AA this way. If villain is in any way like me, his raising range on the river is mostly hands that are ahead of 64s.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 08:35 PM
Feels nitty, but I probably just call. Remove pro label from your notes.

sent from my secret chat thread
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 10:00 PM
All-in.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-04-2016 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush
All-in.
Hi its me your brother.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 01:14 AM
Flat. Jamming seems spewy.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 07:23 AM
Flat. You are beat, though.

Jamming is asinine with an underboat. You are losing $350 well more than 50 percent of the time when you jam. What worse hand is he suddenly leveling himself into calling with? A naked 6? Come up with a range that calls a shove that isn't just saying 'thank you' for your extra donation of $350.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 09:45 AM
Should lead this flop, pre-flop raiser is often checking this flop back due to mulitway/limpers whos ranges hit this flop. No biggie tho, c/r could have built this pot up.

On the river its an easy call. Any raise is only getting called by Aces full. Don't see V checking the flop w/ 22 or a 6.

Also, I like to just raise 55 pre over the limper. I know we are in EP but taking the lead and masking your pp has some advantages. Overlimping is standard obv, no qualms about that.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 11:02 AM
Results, OP?
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 11:13 AM
Lead flop. AP, call river, no point in shoving. His river raise says "I can beat 6x" and your hand, for all intents and purposes given this action, is not relatively better than 6x.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 11:13 AM
grunch. Ship it if V has any station tendencies. otherwise just call and expect to win 99% of the time.

V should never be checking back 66 or AA multiway on that super drawy board. If he as A6, chalk it up to a cooler.

The only reason I would hesitate to ship is because V almost never has a hand that he can call a ship with, so you end up folding his entire range except for the rare A6 that beats you.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 02:17 PM
V has tight nitty image and bad overvaluing fish on the button. I can def see V having AA here. If V wasn't 'almost nitty', i'm def calling, never raising.

What does villain think your range is here when you bet river? Out of that range, what does he think you will call a raise with? This might be a fold and might be a call dependent on your answers.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubey
V should never be checking back 66 or AA multiway on that super drawy board. If he as A6, chalk it up to a cooler.
It's actually a pretty reasonable flop to check if your opponents typically have a range that is polarized between sets and over card pair draws and you have tight/nitty image. A LAG should bet, though.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote
05-05-2016 , 02:30 PM
Meh multiway I would probably check back AcAx combos.
Full house vs. WTF river raise 190bb deep Quote

      
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