2/3 No limit.

I have been bothered by this hand that I played ~ 2 weeks ago. I was really tired at the time after being on a 24-hour heater so my level of thinking was not at an A+ thinking although I was still considering about my opponents range on the turn and river in great depth.

Villian: Young guy in 20s shaved head looked jewish with glasses. I recently sat down and when I first arrived this dude was tanking with 59ss in a limped pot on a Q94s turn 5-offsuit for like a pot sized all-in bet (easiest call IMO).

Anyways
My hand T8ss
Effecive stacks $300
Preflop:
2 limpers (1UTG 1 MP), I iso from the HJ to $15, villain flats on the button, limpers call

Flop:
($60)
QhTh5s
2 checks, 1 cbet $40, villain calls, 2 folds.

Turn:
($120)
6s
I check, villain thinks for 5-10 seconds and makes it $60. I think for a good 15-20 seconds and call.

My thought process: I am getting implied odds to hit my hand and I will donkbet all in on the river if I make my hand. If I make two-pair I will likely c/c the river and possibly shove myself depending on the texture, if draws miss I will likely jam myself.

*I wasn't thinking this before the river but it is very important*
I don't put villain on a flush draw besides JKhh so I can represent a heart as wel when I c/c.

River:
($240)
Ah
I donkbet all in for $185.

I just felt like this was the perfect card, what range are you calling with on the river as villain?

I LOVE your all in OTR here.

Villain doesn't seem like the type of V to stab OTT with a heart draw, trying to steal the pot. I think villain has AQ here.
OTF I think if villain has a set/2p he would be raising here because of that draw heavy board.

It would also help to have some information about how hero has been playing as well.

I think villain calls with flushes, and maybe a crying call with a set/straight depending on how your image is.

I have essentially no image I think this was my 5th hand at the table and I hadn't seen a flop. I also think this guy was not considering image too much and the hand where tanked with the two-pair is why I loved this A so much on the river. I asked him before this hand if he was going to fold the 2 pair and he said "I wanna be careful with my money"

Well, preflop obviously failed. Attempting to isolate 2 limpers from MP (we still have 4 players left behind us to act) with a mere $15 raise at a 2/3 table (table dependent, but I wouldn't go less than $20 here) probably ain't gonna ever work, and sure enough we went to the flop in a raised pot not in position with T high. Pretty easy overlimp, IMO.

I think I'm cool with the flop bet. We might have the best hand, might win us position.

Anyone maybe barrel the turn against this villain? Looks like he's capable of folding TP given the read in the description. Otherwise we probably have 14 outs if he calls, and still have a showdownable hand. Although honestly I usually don't have this barrel in me. As played, we're getting right around the immediate odds we need to chase upwards of 14 outs (if those outs are all good), so I also call.

Not sure if I'm cool with a plan to jam river if our draws whiff; it doesn't make a lotta sense to check/call the turn with a big hand on this drawy board, so I think we get looked up.

I can understand this being a pretty good card to bluff since our hand looks exactly like a flush draw (although it might complete two pair for the villain, which he might have a hard time folding). However, we also have a showdownable hand so bluffing with it usually ain't the best idea (although given play, it kinda looks like it might not be best at showdown). Also, this depends a lot on our image and what we think villain might think of us.

Overall, passive me hates preflop and is a little undecided about postflop, but thinking it might (???) be a little spewy?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Okay please don't get caught up preflop. I usually start boosting it more to like 18-22 but I make it smaller and keep bigger PSR until i get a grasp of limpers ranges. For me T8ss is like 50% limp behind 50% isolate but one of the limpers I remember being really glued to top pair at another table so I opted to isolate.

On the turn villain is tight and loves his money so when I check I think he tells me that he has a bare Queen here almost always because players like this will raise 2 pair on the flop to 'protect' from draws.

I hadn't planned to bluff any heart on the river (when thinking about it live) but when the heart falls I figure I can rep a flush, I know he doesn't have any flushes in his range besides the royal. Additionally I thought wow, It woud be so hard for me to call here with anything here besides a slow-played TT, or AQ. He can't really put me on a bluff on the river besides the exact Tsxs type hand and he doesn't seem to be thinking above level 1.25

Can i get some more input on what sort of ranges you guys are calling with on river AS VILLAIN WITH NO READS?

+1

hate the check call on the turn.

his bet tells me that he thought you were giving up on the hand. there are so many top pair/weak kicker, middle pair, draws in his range on that flop. it looks like a good board to me to double barrell since we have outs for the flush.

river - the Ace on the river completes the broadway straight draws so to me this is a kamikaze play.

And it completes the flush!!!!!!

your trying to represent the hand that he most likely has and assuming he could only have called on the flop with top pair.

Not sure I'd raise that from the hijack with that many limpers in unless you think they'll fold or get down to 2 or 3 ways total.

I'm not as huge a fan of the flop bet/fold 4 ways. We're getting called so much on that wet board. I'd rather just shut it down with second pair bad kicker and bet the turn if checked to again. I recognize that's passive but I just don't think our bet takes this down very often.

Turn I don't think a barrel is a terrible idea given how many draws are against us and how many outs we have.

River is a great card to barrel given stack sizes if you put V on a made hand (not a draw). Your turn line of check/call makes a draw hand so likely, and the straight and flush draws just hit.

Now, do you think V was actually drawing or playing a Q though?

How do we have a showdownable hand? We're behind V's entire range now given he called flop and bet turn. He either had at least one pair better than ours or draws that hit on river (flush or straight).

We have 0 SD value. We are behind V like 99% of the time here.

this quite a profile

As played (flop call + turn bet) we are currently behind basically all of V's range.

Question is, what would he call with?

Do remember that lots of V's here just read their cards. For one, unless he's a mega nit he's calling you all day with a straight or a flush (which is a decent part of his range).

Now, he's probably not calling you with KQ, QJ, etc. which I think is in his range.

2 pair and sets are tough. He'll fold 2 pair a lot, but probably call a decent amount with sets.

I don't mean to be rude but... I really don't put the villain on a draw here besides KJss exactly. I had him profiled as the type that only bets with a hand and checks with draws. If he had checked back the turn I would be less hesitant but when he comes out betting 1/2 pot after thinking about it for a little bit I was pretty confident that his bet was for protection and likely 1 pair type.

he spoke some hebrew? to his neighbor but I wasn't implying that the reason he was tight was because of his religion.

Preflop I wasn't expecting the button to call which made life more difficult but I think with my skill advantage I can raise 8Tss profitably a good percentage from CO and BUT and be making a EV+ isolation.

I only put villain on made hands besides KJhh when he bets and after his quick flop call with 2 others left to act.

I didn't barrel the turn because I didn't think he had too many connecting hearts hands in his range that would call or JJ weak Qxs that would fold to another barrel. I like that I can ensure stacks get in on the river when I bet but if I get raised I have to fold and a bet doesn't accomplish much else.

I was 100% sure villain had a hand made before the river or a royal flush I just wasn't sure how much he would fold in actuality (in my mind I fold 90-100% if his spot besides the royal flush)

I honestly might make the river less. "Value" betting (read: non shove bluffing) $120-140 (yes, leaving only $45 behind) looks a lot scarier than shoving $185. So many people bluff shove but fewer people "value" bet bluff (or at least get caught doing it). If he thinks you're bluffing the scare card because you think he's scared money he's calling a lot wider than you want. If he thinks you're value towning him for less because you don't think he'll call more, he might find a fold more often when the ace improved his hand or he was made before the river.

You should have just posted the hand without what you did/hinting at results. I'd like to see how many people tell you to shove river vs check/fold vs above.

Ya, I forgot the obvious straight draw came in too; I agree our showdown value is pretty slim (although it's definitely non-zero).

I think it's really light. What called flop and bet turn and is still around that hasn't caught us besides outright air and the bottom end of the straight draw (J9)? This hand was raised preflop. Not like we're against T4 or some random other bad T. Maybe someone played 5 this bad, but I don't think I see it, and even if they did they could have binked the 6 or the A or a flush by now (lots of 5's that would have called flop and bet turn)

I like your thinking and the river shove but only because you had a read that he was tight. Without this, the shove is suicidal as you would get the speech "I know you hit your flush, but I have to call anyway" and you couldnt script a better card then that one. I think your hand looks like a flush draw (cbet flop c/c turn). His hand could be the royal, straight, 2 pairs, sets, but I feel like 2 pair makes up a whole bunch of his range aand the nutted hands are a smaller part as he doesn't seem like the player to barrel off drawing hands.

I misunderstood, when you said you didn't think about repping hearts in game, did you mean you just saw the card and did it? If so, I do that a lot and I feel like it works a decent amount of the time haha

This sounds like the kind of guy that has a pretty narrow betting range on the turn. I think he checks back or bets smaller with anything weaker than QJ. Small percentage he could be semi bluffing with a draw since this is your 5th hand at the table and you don't have solid reads that he doesn't yet. Just because he tank calls a shove with mid and bottom pair in a limped pot (super standard btw to at least think about it for a long time and is probably a fold without any reads) doesn't mean he won't bet on semi-bluffs when checked to. So this shove is trying to get him off of KQ, QJ, and mayybe Q9 (doubt he bets turn with that) and he is calling with Q10, AQ, any semi-bluffing draws, and any sets that didn't raise the flop. Seems like a super thin shove at best. Just be ready for a ride on the variance train.

And betting turn >>>> checking turn.