Foxwoods 2/5/10 (optional UTG straddle) AKo WWYD - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Villains range is QQ+ and AK, and i agree with playbig its weighted towards AA a big percentage of the time. Unless villains is an action jackson type of player,then obviously this range goes out the window, but that isnt the case here.

When you can pinpoint a villains range down to a very few hands (like you indeed can do in livepoker because most villains play so unbalanced and never mix up their range in many spots), its a clear exploit to fold a hand like AK when you see the writing on the wall.

In the original hand history, I disagree that you can pinpoint Vs range that precisely. But there’s no sense in arguing about it anymore. We have different perceptions of our opponents.

I searched “overlimp/reraise” on Google and there’s some discussion on a poker blog from 5 years ago. Similar scenario at 2/5: V overlimps over 2 limpers and then back raises a squeeze. Different game conditions and different V profile so I don’t claim it’s relevant here. Comments seem to be split on whether Vs range is more weighted towards AK/TT or AA/KK when he takes this line. If anyone is interested, here’s the link: http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2014/03...p-back-raised/

Quote

11-30-2021 , 12:36 PM

#27

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,199

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium

IME our range matters because: If our range is stronger and if V knows that then his 4bet range will be stronger. V is also 4betting into two uncapped ranges which should also make his range stronger than if he were 3betting a squeeze. I’m not saying anything complicated here. Everyone knows 4bet ranges are more nutted than 3bet ranges. AK doesn’t perform well enough against a 4bet range to call off here IMO. In the original hand history where we were facing a 3bet our response is more debatable IMO.

You are overcomplicating this big time. Limp/reraise is a _trappy_ line, wich 98 percent of livevillains do with big nutted hands regardless how wide the openraiser is and so forth. Its just how it is, and the sooner you learn to accept this stuff the better off you will be.

Even though it doesent make sense to YOU or other 2+2 posters, it can make sense to our villains.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 12:38 PM

#28

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,199

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium

In the original hand history, I disagree that you can pinpoint Vs range that precisely. But there’s no sense in arguing about it anymore. We have different perceptions of our opponents.

I searched “overlimp/reraise” on Google and there’s some discussion on a poker blog from 5 years ago. Similar scenario at 2/5 with a straddle. V overlimps over 2 limpers and then back raises a squeeze. Comments seem to be split on whether Vs range is more weighted towards AK/TT or AA/KK when he takes this line. If anyone is interested, here’s the link: http://www.thinkingpoker.net/2014/03...p-back-raised/

I have played thousands uppon thousands of hours of livepoker through the past 10 years, and so have several experienced posters in this forum. I value our experience more than som 5 year old blog or other links you can post from Google.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 12:44 PM

#29

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium

This is a recreational player, not a good player. He's not thinking about all that, you're giving him too much credit to be thinking he's trying to narrow down your range based on your action and bet accordingly. He's not making a move because he thinks hero's light because his squeezing range is a few percent wider, he's just playing his cards.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 12:54 PM

#30

bmoney

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrucci

in fact you are so correct on this...a few weeks ago I was the straddle again....and a late position guy raises to $50 after a few limps and i look down at AA, and i 3-bet to $150 ...the first thing the original raiser said....was...why didnt you want to raise earlier? (he wasnt paying attention that I was the straddle...and just assumed i limp/raised) so....knowing that limp re-raise is almost always AA...I HAD to point out i was the straddle so he wouldn't immediately think AA and unfortunatly he folded anyways....

so obv this is a a well known tactic with AA

Quote

11-30-2021 , 02:00 PM

#31

zooey

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 228

I like the fold 100%, not close. Even if it's a mix of biggish pairs with some AK. I really don't think AQ and AJ are there, which you need.

I've been limp reraising once or twice a session in my regular game. A5s, 99, ... (Never with KK+). So far I've scored 100%, with calls and flop folds. Possibly getting a reputation as the "Limp-reraiser with AA guy." I'll get caught someday, but it's fun for now.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 02:56 PM

#32

bmoney

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 830

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooey

its actually not a bad idea to throw this in there against randoms

Quote

11-30-2021 , 03:31 PM

#33

ChaosInEquilibrium

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

I didn't say it's never AK. It's extremely unlikely, from the way the hand played out but the majority of the time (probably upwards of 90% plus) he has aces, and I didn't imply KK was a fold. I'm not folding kings pre for 775$ in 2/5 unless it was my grandmother re-popping me.

Well, if you are right that this is AA 90% of the time then KK is a snap fold for hero. You know what equity of AA versus {AA, KK} is? (and that range is only 85% comprised of AA) It sure ain’t 41%+, which is what we need to justify the GII.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 04:32 PM

#34

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium

So you’re saying 4bet ranges aren’t tighter than 3bet ranges? I think they definitely are tighter in live poker. If his 4bet range is tighter than his 3bet range it’s gonna affect the way we play other hands in our range. Like what are we doing with QQ?

Well, if you are right that this is AA 90% of the time then KK is a snap fold for hero. You know what equity of AA versus {AA, KK} is? (and that range is only 85% comprised of AA) It sure ain’t 41%+, which is what we need to justify the GII.

You don't seem to be too good at interpreting things. I never said or implied a 4bet isn't "tighter" than a 3bet. I don't know how or where you come up with all of these assumptions, especially that I would fold kings pre to this guy.

Last edited by Playbig2000; 11-30-2021 at 04:41 PM.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 04:52 PM

#35

ChaosInEquilibrium

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

You should def fold KK if you’re 90% sure he has AA. Calling with KK is a pretty huge leak when we don’t have implied odds to set-mine.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 05:00 PM

#36

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Not that i care alot, but chaos is arguing that since you stated that the limp/reraise is AA 90 percent of the time you should be folding KK.

Quote

11-30-2021 , 05:15 PM

#37

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrucci

Not that i care alot, but chaos is arguing that since you stated that the limp/reraise is AA 90 percent of the time you should be folding KK.

I'm folding ace high, but kings is too strong to fold for $665 pre in 2/5 (or 77.5 big blinds effective as some might say).

Quote

11-30-2021 , 06:04 PM

#38

madlex

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

I'm folding ace high, but kings is too strong to fold for $665 pre in 2/5 (or 77.5 big blinds effective as some might say).

Even if his hand flips over and you see AA?

(90% sure isn't that far off from that)

Quote

11-30-2021 , 08:59 PM

#39

zooey

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 228

Funny vlog: ”I folded kings.”

https://youtu.be/TCU5n_LTifs

Quote

11-30-2021 , 09:17 PM

#40

ChaosInEquilibrium

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooey

Funny vlog: ”I folded kings.”

https://youtu.be/TCU5n_LTifs

Hilarious…

Quote

11-30-2021 , 09:19 PM

#41

bmoney

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 830

Quote:

Originally Posted by zooey

Funny vlog: ”I folded kings.”

https://youtu.be/TCU5n_LTifs

Slow poker is genious. And that vlog is so fitting for this thread hahah

Quote

12-01-2021 , 11:30 AM

#42

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Even if his hand flips over and you see AA?

(90% sure isn't that far off from that)

What do you think I should do in that situation

Quote

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 2 of 2

First

1 2

Last