1/3 game at my local casino.

Hero: $550, UTG +3 QQ
Villain $500, SB. Pretty snug middle-aged guy who I'd never played with before. Had called a three-way all in earlier to earn his stack. Hadn't gotten out of line at all over a few hours.

UTG limps, I raise to $12. Pretty standard open for me here with a couple calling stations behind. Button calls, villain three bets to $50.

Should this be a four bet here? We're both playing >150bbs deep here. I think I was fine with raising, but didn't have a good bet size in mind. He hadn't put on a squeeze yet and this was definitely his most aggressive move all day.

If I choose to four bet, how much?

For what it's worth:

Flop ($112) A75 Villain checks (!), I check.
Turn ($112) 9 Villain checks, I check.
River ($112) 2 Villain makes a big show of looking again at his cards for a diamond and checks, I bet $45, he calls and shows down

Put results in spoiler, please.

What does V think of you? What previous hands has he seen raise, or are you taking down pots uncontested? What do you think your image is? (Remember, you might be playing TAG but if you are winning a lot before showdown players are going to think you're running the table over and doubt you have real hands.)

Vs. a snug V who never gets out of line I'm going to assume his range is JJ+ with AK, maybe TT/99 or AQ suited if he thinks you're trying to bully the table. So to me a flat is fine, as you're in a "he's only folding worse than you" sort of situation and while he may call a 4! with AK or JJ there's not a ton of flops that get you paid more and plenty that slow you down.

Kinda nitty, sure. Interested in what other people have to say.

As played, you got the maximum.

I think I was playing reasonably solid pre but getting a out of line afterwards and taking down a bunch of small to medium-sized pots. I'm a regular there and the two other regs who know me weren't involved in the pot.

I feel like a rehabbing nit and I'm looking for more spots to be creative preflop in spots like this.

Four betting here sounds terrible against a V who isn't getting out of line pre based on your description. He's (a) got a very tight 3 bet range by your read, and (b) he's going to play basically perfectly against your range by calling when you're behind and folding the bottom of his range that you're beating.

See a flop but be cautious he has tons of AA and KK.

As played to the river, I'm guessing he has KK or JJ a lot.

IMO, you are focusing on the wrong part of your game. I'd rather get better post than worry about my 4 betting frequency and range.

I know your first concern is if you don't 4 bet queens, your 4 bet range is just Aces and Kings. The alternative solution is to not have a 4 bet range at all. When your villains see that you flat aces, they're going to be less interested in 3 betting you.

I'd bet the flop on a board with the FD ace on it. Sure, JJ is going to fold, but likely KK is going to as well.

it's more closer to folding pre if Vs stack was shorter.. 4betting is horrible

you played it fine.. JJ is at the bottom of his 3bet range here.. you're not considering who the player is..

also.. make it $20 pre.. $12 is asking for trouble

We probably should not 4b here.

If V's 3b range is something like JJ+/AK, which is what I'd guess, we clearly don't get value by 4betting, and he's never folding better. If V's range is wider, a 4b only makes sense if he's going to continue with enough weaker hands so that QQ actually gets value. Based on V's description, I highly doubt he's calling a 4b with AQ or 99. If his 3b range is wide and he'll fold most of it to a 4b, we can flat with QQ and extract value postflop, and use some weaker hands in our opening range as 4b bluffs (preferably hands with a blocker).

Bottom line is that it's hard to craft a "snug" Villain against whom we want to include QQ in our 4b range here.

Rumor and Venice have it here.

I don't understand the river bet...if you're going to bet, bet $75.

Half the KK combos have Kd and aren't folding.

A $12 raise after a limp with some calling stations behind us seems super small, no? I'd raise bigger to attempt to narrow the field (unless we're cool with going multiway OOP).

Old guy who hasn't gotten out-of-line 3bets from the blinds? This is KK+ 99% of the time and a misread hand 1% of the time, imo. We'd be calling $38 to possibly win $524, so implied odds of almost ~14:1. SPR will be ~4.5ish, so there's basically no way he'll be able to get away from his hand postflop if we hit a set (unless maybe flop comes AQx and he has KK). I call to setmine.

ETA: I haven't read the spoiler yet, but I'm checking this whole hand down if he lets me. He's got KK a huge amount of the time here and simply ain't gonna fold to one bet.

ETA#2: Even having looked at spoiler, this still sorta falls into the 1% of misread hands for the most part for me.

GcluelessNLnoobG

It took me some time to realize that at live low stakes not having a 4 betting range at all is a viable solution. I prefer to flat in position because I can make sure a bet gets in on the flop. I am far more likely to 4 bet when OOP with AA and KK.

If I post in this thread ignore me.

cAivelostasmallfortuneinthepastmonthwithqueensM

If someone can point to LLSNL games that have 3!s with enough regularity that I would need to put thought into constructing a 4! range, thanks.

I mean, it's true. Even my 3-bet range in most 200/300 max is super-polarized to big pairs/AK and suited connectors. So few players at those stakes are even thinking about that sort of thing that when I 4-ball with AA/KK they still call.

Unfortunately the only read we have on V is that he is probably tight. If we 4b I probably min 4b and fold if he comes back over the top. I prefer flatting and possibly folding if he is super tight. If he has a normal 3b range we would be looking usually at QQ+ and AK putting us on the bottom end. We have position too so pretty much will call one street no matter what so when he bets once then checks we can take it down.

Also your turn check is silly because it is fairly obvious V doesn't have an Ace OTT with double checks so I would fire on that card.