1-2-5 home game playing 8 handed.
Hero is tag player. Villain is loose normally passive player. Hero has 420ish villain has me covered.

I limp in from ep with 33

6 players to a flop of 1083
Pot $30
Blinds check to me and I bet 25. Only villain in small blind calls.

Pot$80
Turn is J
Villain checks and I continue betting. This time for 55.
Villain slides in 100 for for the check raise (dealer tells him he needs another 10 if he intends to raise). I think about shoving but elect to just call to evaluate river

which comes Q
Villian goes all in for $280 effective into a pot of $300. We should??

Paging GG and his love of “avoiding tough spots by limping”.

Normally I’d hate limping up front. Especially if there’s rake. It might be okay in this game though, given you’re seeing 6 to the flop (so you aren’t being exploited).

I don’t think he’s bluffing often here. And I think villain will have at 16 97 and all 12 Q9 combos here. So I lean towards a fold, given he’s betting 280 into 300 (we need to be good around 32.6%, I just don’t see how we get there).

Even if villain has a bluff button with hearts, he’s probably not going to click it back the way he did unless he’s a total buffoon, since this minraise will never generate folds


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Grunch.

Pre, limping may be right, but I think is debatable and fold and raise would be options, but very table and stacks dependent.

As played, I think it's a sigh fold river. Why?

- Loose Passives don't semi-bluff raise turns with draws, so it's unlike to be a busted draw, and big river bets are rarely bluffs anyway.
- Given one, he *could be* over-valuing two pair. Most likely given flop-turn is JT, but do we really expect him to blow his wad when you only need to have a 9 to make the straight. So I think 2p is unlikely.
- I think it's likely based on this he has the straight and he got there on the turn. If not he almost certainly has a better set than you (and yes for a loose passive, all of the other sets are in range).

I thought you hated raising in EP. Are you advocating a fold in general?

No that’s GG. I think we should be raising our good hands because...they’re good hands.

I’d fold this in an average game. If we’re wicked deep and everyone is calling wide and no one is 3 betting ever I can get behind a raise. If they’re true droolers who can’t understand that your range is immediately defined when you open limp up front, and rake isn’t a factor, we can go full exploitative of the table and limp in and play bingo.

I don’t know if 6 ways limped is the norm, but if it is, then yeah we should be playing 33.


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If you just shove over on the turn, you get called by tons of two pair combinations and pair + draw combos, and won't have to make an icky decision on a bad river

When a loose passive V tries to min c/r on a wet board OTT, bottom set is trash. It's worth calling to see if we spike a full house, but without one river is an easy fold, imo.

I agree with TJ against a more aggressive V, but I don't see any check/min-raise pair+draw combos here from a passive V, and few 2-pair ones on that board.

As you've said before: if we have a profitable hand, why ever limp, even if it's "exploitative"? Don't we want to build a pot with the best hand? And if we don't have a profitable hand, shouldn't we be folding?

e.g.,

Rare case where the parameters can make sense, since we will rarely put a lot of money into the pot when there’s no 3 on board. Even then, when no one is 3 betting, we can go ahead and raise ourselves if we want to improve our chance of stacking someone.


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This.

And I think a lot of them would raise a hand like JT bigger on the turn because of all of the draws. Not that it matters because he wouldn’t jam JT on the river like this.

I’m sure once in awhile we see something odd. But we don’t see it often enough to call.


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No more generic limping argument ITT. It's been done to death and does not need to take over every thread that includes a limp.

Seems like a pretty easy fold OTR. The turn CR is mostly straights (with an occasional 2p), but we're easily getting enough direct+implied odds to call & hope to boat up.

A passive V is also pretty much never jamming that river without a 9. Even if he ever has pair+draws or combo draws on the turn CR, a whole bunch of those are straights now.

I find the fold button and villain later tells me he had j 10 for turned two pair. Said he knew I couldn’t call with out a nine��