Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Is Folding here Gross? Is Folding here Gross?

12-18-2014 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wager9
Thanks for the replies.
Yah this hand I played a little too, I don't even know the word. Here was my thoguht process...

After V1 raised I seriously put him on QQ, KK,AA, AQs+, AK

I actually paused a second longer than I wanted to pre-flop because my reflex was to 3 bet immediately but against this guy, he is NOT folding at best I am a coin flip with him...so I elected to set mine.

Then I hit that set I was mining for...and my brain said "hmm...maybe this Asian guy will bet (he was somewhat scrappy) and the V1 calls or raises and I get it in here or at least get a big pot on and GII on the turn. The Asian guy DID NOT bet. V1 pops the $30 and I want V2 in. I also DO NOT want to scare V1 out as he did play somewhat timid. I called with intention of getting this going on the turn...

the Ace hits...I think "ok I assume he bets again and I give him the bad news. THERE WAS MY MISTAKE. I actually did not think this guy would c-bet without a made hand but did not consider this. As a result, I could have taken AQ and AK out of his range on the flop after he c-bet it. I could have limitied him to AA, KK, QQ. So he really could either have hit his set here or he is probably not going to bet. He checks and I cuss myself out in my mmind because I realize I should not have got fancy on this hand. The Q hits..my mind is a bit frazzled because I made some assumptions that the V's would behave a certain way and they did not and my plan was foiled. At this point I think I mentally let down and was just thinking, I am likely good...I have a set. Once I bet the $45 aqnd he pushed it was just a matter of "ugh...I played this one bad. i am getting 2.8 to 1 though...maybe I made a mistake somehwere along here and read this V wrong, I guess I have to call..."

I called and he shows
Spoiler:
QQ for the set.


In hindsight, and after studying your replies, I actually like pushing the flop here. Or at least donking a fat sum on the flop. He tanks and probably gets it in or at least calls.

CURIOUS HYPOTHETICAL:
if I played it like that...lets say i bet $50 on flop and he calls. And the Ace hits on the turn...do we bet again? Or is slow play prudent here? Because if we bet here and has QQ or KK he is folding for sure and probably going home. But if he does have AK we get value...thoughts?
IMO it's pretty simple, you should basically never slow play unless your in a pot with a super agro player that always bets when checked to. The rare guy that will fire 3 streets w/ nothing. Aside from that bet your hand.

Slow playing is -ev the vast majority of the time. If I have AA and flop A J 5, I'm leading out. If I have 44 on a 4 4 K board I'm leading.

The fact of the matter is, someone either has a hand they want to continue with, be it value or a bluff, or they don't. I want to win the max. slow playing and hoping they pick up 2nd pair or a backdoor draw might gain a single bet at most,(or they get free cards to make some crazy draw and actually win) where as leading/raising when they have a hand gets all the money in.

yes they will fold most of the time. But that 1/4 1/5 time when they actually hit the flop hard and get 100+ bb's in it far out ways winning 15 bb's ott once in awhile slow playing.
Is Folding here Gross? Quote
12-19-2014 , 12:32 AM
Above poster is 100% correct. Slowplaying these hands most of the time just means the pot stays small until the river..and will only get bigger at that point if villain caught up.

I like a 3-bet PF. JJ is too often ahead PF to strictly turn it into a set mine. Plus it will get you more information...if the tight passive villain 4-bet shoves you, its then an easy fold- you will know you are behind.

Dont slowplay the flop. Im personally betting out here...like patchohare said, either he has a hand to continue or he doesnt. If your original concern that he may have an overpair is correct, theres no way he is getting away from it on that dry board. Bet out, if he folds he folds...you wouldnt of gotten action from him anyway. YOU turned into the passive player by checking it OTF and OTT...and put yourself to a decision that wasnt necessary.

AP..this isnt really a decision. You really cant fold a set OTR for $100 at this point.
Is Folding here Gross? Quote
12-19-2014 , 12:41 AM
grunch

I c/r flop vs the dude you described

no you can't ever fold here esp for this price...300 more and I would consider it, just gotta take the cooler like a man and reload, althought I feel beat we can't fold a set for just 100 more ever but yeah for 250-300 more I probably would
Is Folding here Gross? Quote
12-19-2014 , 06:11 AM
Grunch

Meh, I'd call after you underrepresented your hand so much. Villain wouldn't put you on a set of jacks.

I would have bet the flop and would definitely bet the turn. I'd even consider a 3-bet pf.

I don't see why AK, AQ or AJ can't be in his range. Maybe he even raises QJs.
Is Folding here Gross? Quote
12-19-2014 , 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wager9

CURIOUS HYPOTHETICAL:
if I played it like that...lets say i bet $50 on flop and he calls. And the Ace hits on the turn...do we bet again? Or is slow play prudent here? Because if we bet here and has QQ or KK he is folding for sure and probably going home. But if he does have AK we get value...thoughts?
What card could possibly come on the river if he has KK or QQ that would make him call a bet on the river? If we're assuming he folds KK and QQ because an ace showed up on the turn, then surely he folds the river unless he hits. That ace which showed up on the turn won't disappear when the river card shows up. The ace will still be there to scare this villain.

As a result, you get no extra value from slowplaying against KK and QQ on the turn. Villain gets extra value from the free card which might beat you.

The river card could easily scare him even more if he has QQ and a king shows up. Even a Q could scare him if he has KK because maybe you had a straight, or maybe you had QJ and checked the turn because the ace scared you, and from his perspective maybe you made 2 pair on the river with QJ when the Q hit.

Slowplaying the turn against KK and QQ just costs you money.

Last edited by Steve00007; 12-19-2014 at 06:36 AM.
Is Folding here Gross? Quote

      
m