Playing 1-2 and the table is stacked with fish. Most players are more then happy to stack off with top pair/mid kicker and then claim its a cooler when they lose. It's definately the softest table I have seen in quite some time. Other then an older asian man who seems to be playing pretty tight/solid, the rest of the table seems to be trying to give their money away.

hand;

Hero, BB ($350) 4-7 offsuit
Villain, UTG + 2 ($400). The villain is the tight asian man, who posted blinds for this hand after missing an orbit, thus he did not choose to play his hand from EP but posted pre-flop. In the last 2 hours I have seen him play only one hand, which he 3 bet pre flop and won with a c-bet on the flop. He flashed Kings that hand.

5 players limp, the small blind calls, Hero checks.

FLOP- Q,8,6 rainbow. Blinds check and UTG bets $5. All four remaining limpers call, including the villain. Small blind folds. With $39 in the pot and the great implied odds of getting paid by one of the fish with top pair or perharps two pair if I hit my gut-shot, I decided to peel one. Hero calls.


TURN- 5. Hero checks hoping UTG will lead for a similar bet - get 4 callers again - and then Hero can put in a nice raise. Instead UTG checks and now Villain fires out $40. Everyone folds to Hero who is a bit taken back as the Villain has not thrown out a pot sized bet all night. In fact, villain has played a pot in quite a long time, seeming content to just sit and wait. hero decides to flat and lead river as i think a check-raise would actually fold out hands such as top pair, or weak two pair versus this particular villain.

RIVER- 2. with about $120 in the pot Hero decides to bet $75 into the Villain, hoping that my strange line could elicit a call from marginal hands that villain may have checked behind (again, hands like top pair or weak two pair).
At this point the villain fairly quickly put out a raise - making it $200 total. At this point it is by far the biggest hand I have seen the villain part of. I did not feel that the villain would raise me in that spot with hands like 2 pair, and although he didnt play it like a set I also dont feel he would raise in that spot. Its feeling a lot like he may have called the flop with 7-9 and spiked the nuts on the turn. I struggled to find another hand he could play like this, and the more I thought about it the more I didnt like it.

So, I guess my question is - do the pot odds justify the crying call? Is it a snap call? easy fold? Was my line justified in this spot?

uhhhh, snap call?!?!?

You have no information regarding betting ranges after the flop against this vil and you have second nuts. Just because he plays tight does not mean he doesn't stack off with sets here.

Oh and btw this looks just like a set. Why would vil fire a pot-sized bet with the nuts after checks on the turn?

Against this vil, given lack of post-flop history you have with him, you don't need odds to make this call.

Call, more cry than snap for me though. We should be good here more than 1 in 4 times.

Personally I feel he would raise a $5 donk bet on the flop if he had a set. He 3 bet his Kings from $15 to $45 pre flop and then bet $60 into $90 on the flop, so I believe he plays his good hands fast. Trapping with a set on the flop with 7 players is not only horrible but doesnt seem to match the villain MO.

I can't make this fold. it sure as hell looks like a set to me. I hate hate hate playing huge pots off unraised preflop action though. but yeah b/f this river is so ridiculous it should never ever be a point of contention.

calllll.

c/c turn and river i'm. no one pot bets this turn card and checks river really. maybe AQ.

guy certainly has sets here. he has 79 too. but we can't fold this to one hand of which there just aren't that many combos. ]

"tight asian men" (so many good jokes there) don't limp 79 UTG+2 often imo...

Thank you, that is clearly what I meant when I asked if the odds justify the call as we are getting roughly 3-1. Do you agree with leading the river to get value from weaker hands? In that case, would you have raised the turn?

Sorry you lost, buddy, but no you should probably not fold.

Oh, and flop call is atrocious.

Its probably a fold. Horrible spot.

I wish we'd just checked the river. We don't have to fear him checking behind with sets and 2 pair hands and his value-bet size will usually give us a good sense of the strength of his hand.

haha, thanks for avoiding the easy joke spot lol. But I made sure to point out that he didnt limp, he posted his blinds as he missed an orbit and had to post to get back in. Also, does AQ not raise the flop often here with so many left behind?

Huh? That depends on A lot of things including villain tendencies/table dynamic, stack sizes, and board texture.

I call. He should have a few sets here so it's ok. After putting in the $75 I'm calling the $125 for sure. Fold flop and your never in this spot fwiw.

The villain is tight/solid and the table is opposite. Thus a raise on the flop by him would surely still get worse hands to call and would start building the pot.

Do ppl really think the villain is flating a $5 donk bet in a 7-way hand at a table that people would gladly call another $20 with top pair??? Just seems so unlikely to me.

Preflop and flop look fine to me.

I'd probably just donk the turn. Sometimes players who lead the flop will get scared when the whole world calls them (which happened here) and be much less likely to bet again on the turn.

As played, I think river is a horrible spot. I mean, villains who seem to play this tight/solid basically only raise this river with the nuts; with sets they happily call this big river bet because they are more than aware there are a few straights out there (notice how the river just brought in an idiot end straight too). If we're betting against this guy, then I think we're setting our maximum price we're willing to pay and folding to a raise (we're playing fairly deep here too). Otherwise, if we like getting to showdown with 2nd nuts, I'd just check and let him bet his two pair / set and be happy to get paid off that way.

GcluelessNLnoobG

is it so unlikely V has a set of 5's? or any two? perhaps he had a bad phone call when he was away and is tilting? there are alot of what ifs but him leading the turn with the nuts after a $5 call-a-thon on the flop with 79 shouldn't dissuade you from calling his river raise. and if it does, we need to be checking the river. it is a gross spot to be sure, but after leading the river, you'd be high as a kite to fold second nuts.

Thank you! This is the only
Response to
Acknowledge all the staights (including the rivered one) thus making a raise here look less like a set.

Call given the price and the fact that you saw fit to hunt down the 5 postflop to begin with. Sorry you lost to 97

Felt fit to call the flop as I was getting 8-1 immediate odds plus good implied odds. And I don't recall saying that I called and lost to 7-9

This is a snap call for me. I'd be more likely to push than fold.

Nitty rocks sometimes are prone to making bad decisions when playing less than premium hands. I think its reasonable to expect enough strangely played 2-pair hands and sets plus the occational chop to make calling easy given the pot odds.

DrStrange

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty ..., why check and not lead into the pot on the turn with your straight? When you keep checking and calling and then from the blue sky you wakeup on the river and lead it becomes obvious you've got the hand made early (probably on the flop or turn). Why not lead on the turn and have him raise you so you can have him committed and play for stacks?

Now, what are you talking about man-- with that "easy fold"? Who's folding the second nuts on the river after being committed?

How can you think in your wild imagination to fold the second nuts on the river after investing so much of your stack in the pot. Folding is done preflop or on the flop before crossing the commitment threshold. On very rare occasions we may try to manage the flux and may "cry fold" with a good read on the turn and take a loss if the stacks are very deep. We cannot fold after getting committed. Got that? If you think that the fold is the best play but you are committed then you made a big mistake before that point. But if you know what you're doing, once you commit yourself to the pot you obviously did that based on some plan that was done before the commitment threshold. If that's the case then you don't fold anymore. Also when you fold on the river after getting committed it become a big negative for your image. People will label you as a fish and gang on you, so to speak. I'm not saying here that you are a fish, but be careful when folding late in the hand after crossing the commitment threshold.

AX,

No, he has played one over pair which is always vulnerable "fast." A set on such a dry board here is extremely invulnerable. You can't infer his set betting tendencies based on one hand where he c-bet flop with an over pair.

Please provide us with a result then. 99.5% of the time in this type of live post, the person got their stack in and lost to the nuts. I doubt it's different here.

Very telling that instead of saying "2Outs, I didn't lose the hand, I called and he showed two pair, just wanted to line check", you rebuffed me with a passive non-denial

Now that I think about it, since he put in a PSB on the turn, I almost like checking since villain will almost always value bet the river. If he bet a smaller amount, I can see us leading river, but maybe c/call turn and c/call river.

If you're leading this river for value tho, you should be prepared to call a raise.
You're definitely good more than enough to call here. a set of 55 here is very likely.

If he has 7,9 gg and move on to the next hand.

But FOLD THE FLOP! you're way out of position!

Getting 7:1 and closing the action in a what will be a 6way pot to the turn, I don't think I could fold here.