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Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD

05-15-2016 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Ok. You make some good points. What's your plan for the turn? Specifically on non-straight cards and spades?
Hero has position. Calling lets him see another card and villain's action. Call and evaluate.

Assuming villain checks, I'd check back non-straight cards and bet spades. I'm happy to see a free card in a protected pot with a ton of outs, and get to see villain act again on the river. I'd bet spades because I'd expect villain to bet better flushes. I think hero is ahead, and I'd want to get value from worse and single high-spade hands.
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
Hero has position. Calling lets him see another card and villain's action. Call and evaluate.

Assuming villain checks, I'd check back non-straight cards and bet spades. I'm happy to see a free card in a protected pot with a ton of outs, and get to see villain act again on the river. I'd bet spades because I'd expect villain to bet better flushes. I think hero is ahead, and I'd want to get value from worse and single high-spade hands.
If villain bets a spade on the turn, are you still planning to go with it?

ETA: thanks for the thoughtful responses
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
This is just not true... Consider a situation where ... both players turn their cards over... This shows that the "fundamental concept" that we shouldn't be betting if villain is going to play perfectly is wrong.
You are correct. The fundamental theory of poker DOES NOT apply when people aren't playing poker!! You have revolutionized the game, sir. Was it in spite of, or BECAUSE OF the bullying?
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
You are correct. The fundamental theory of poker DOES NOT apply when people aren't playing poker!! You have revolutionized the game, sir. Was it in spite of, or BECAUSE OF the bullying?
Another pointless post
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
If villain bets a spade on the turn, are you still planning to go with it?

ETA: thanks for the thoughtful responses
I'd make a tight fold. When a weak-passive beginner player bets oop on a 3-flush board in a protected pot, I think hero is drawing dead with a 5-high flush.
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Another pointless post
You are correct. Whenever you don't understand the point, it's because there was none.
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten
You are correct. The fundamental theory of poker DOES NOT apply when people aren't playing poker!! You have revolutionized the game, sir. Was it in spite of, or BECAUSE OF the bullying?
If your takeaway from the FToP is that we should never bet if it will induce our opponent to play perfectly, then you are misapplying the theorem. If you don't play in a way that maximizes your EV given his hand then your opponent gains.
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote
05-15-2016 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamNewton3
I'm not too worried about V1 who could be tilted and have a hand as bad as a gutshot or a weak top pair. V2 could have a set, a better FD, straight draw, all three of which he might have already raised the 15$ with or could have TPTK, 99, TT, or even some weird 2 pairs.
V1 is all-in and you definitely have to improve to win (we have the nut low). It's possible that your pair outs are live, which is really the only argument for shoving in order to get V2 to fold.
Scenario 1: V2 has a hand like A8/99. If you get V2 to fold, this could open up your 4-6 pair outs. If you just call, is it possible you make more money upon hitting the straight (3-4 outs)?
Scenario 2: V2 has a higher FD. I doubt we get a fold since villain would have better than 2:1 against a shove.
Scenario 3: V2 has a monster (88,33,22). Fairly unlikely given action, but you're not in terrible shape with the overlay from V1.

Just seems rather pointless to shove on the flop, due to the pot being protected by V1 and V2 not seeming to care about the strength shown this far and potential for you to reopen the betting.
Flopping a Marginal FD & OESD Quote

      
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