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Flopped trips OOP Flopped trips OOP

12-27-2012 , 01:42 PM
5/10 NLHE, Hollywood Casino, Charles Town

I should mention that this is the first shot I've taken at 5/10 and I was discovering how different it is from 2/5, and as a result, I played somewhat differently than I normally would.

Hero bought in for $500 and has built it up to $1500 playing an extremely tight short stack strategy, recently tripling up with AA.

Villain (covers) is one of the 3 soft spots at the table. His play is loose, somewhat aggressive, and generally weak. I have seen him get way too much money involved with weak hands several times.

Hero is UTG+1 (9 handed) with QJs. Raises to $35. This is a pretty light open for me, but I figured since I had been playing super tight so far, my hand would be over-repped and deceptive to those who did not realize that I was just short-stacking.

Folds to villain, 3 seats to my left, who makes it $85. All fold back to me.

I seriously considered folding here, but nearly 50% of pots were getting 3 bet and I wasn't so sure I was dominated. Also, I would be heads up with a weaker player, and I had some 30:1 implied odds, so I figured it wasn't too bad of a spot.

Hero calls $50.

Flop ($185): J J 6 rainbow

Hero checks, villain bets $100, hero calls. At this point, I figured he is betting his whole range, and I want to trap.

Turn ($385): 9 full rainbow

Since there were no reasonable draws out there, I figured most likely he either has overcards, in which case he can't call a bet and I might as well let him draw, or an overpair, in which case he will probably bet again. I checked.

Villain bets $250. Hero calls - After he bet, I figured the overpair scenario was a lot more likely. I didn't raise because I felt that calling the turn and leading the river was the best way to extract money from a hand like AA - QQ.

River ($885): A

Obviously a bad card that messes up my plan. If he has KK - QQ, I doubt he calls a bet if I lead out. If he has AA, I'm getting raised. I check the river hoping he checks it back.

Villain bets $500.

Hero?

Comments on all streets appreciated.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 02:30 PM
Seems a clear call
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 02:33 PM
Im never folding your hand is way underrepped...clear call

I prob could find a reason to jam since ax is there.

Also can you clarify how he plays aggressive and weak at the same time....do you mean hes aggressive with weak hands?
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizasutton

Also can you clarify how he plays aggressive and weak at the same time....do you mean hes aggressive with weak hands?
Sorry - when I said "weak" I meant bad. That is, his play seems unsophisticated.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 03:07 PM
probably finding a C/R on the turn.

as played, snap.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5CardDrew
Sorry - when I said "weak" I meant bad. That is, his play seems unsophisticated.
Just fyi, I've seen many more bad players play very "sophisticated" than "unsophisticated".

Sounds like you have been playing very 'unsophisticated' and you are up 2 buy-ins.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
Just fyi, I've seen many more bad players play very "sophisticated" than "unsophisticated".

Sounds like you have been playing very 'unsophisticated' and you are up 2 buy-ins.
Ha, ok, poor word choice. I'm saying he appears to be unskilled at poker.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 05:44 PM
Given that you're playing like a weak-tight nit (no offense), I'd probably fold pre the first time and definitely the second time. As played cr flop or turn and get some money in the pot. As played snap river.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 10:30 PM
whole hand is fine......snap river obv wtf
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 11:27 PM
Not sure why you would ever hope for him to check back otr. Should probably not be playing in that game if you're going to be super scared money.

Either way, call otr.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAismyfriend
whole hand is fine......snap river obv wtf
+1, seems super standard to me.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-27-2012 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cook-
Not sure why you would ever hope for him to check back otr. Should probably not be playing in that game if you're going to be super scared money.

Either way, call otr.
Well, I'm trying to move up. We all start somewhere.

When he bet the turn, I figured his range was weighted toward pairs and not Ax. Do you think KK bets this river when checked to?
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-28-2012 , 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5CardDrew
Well, I'm trying to move up. We all start somewhere.
I don't mean that in a condescending way. I guess I don't understand why you would want him to check back the river though. You played QJs OOP (which isn't necessarily bad against this player), but once you hit your dream flop you should try to make money, not just c/c 3 streets (and from the sound of it, consider folding river?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5CardDrew
When he bet the turn, I figured his range was weighted toward pairs and not Ax. Do you think KK bets this river when checked to?
There are many players that triple barrel that board with an overpair, figuring they would have been raised at some point if you had a J. You are way under-repped and that player will probably find a hero call with his QQ/KK/Ax considering your line/his skill level. You lose to AA/AJ/KJ/99/66, and I highly doubt AJ/KJ/66 are in his 3-betting range.

As played, I like jamming against said V. If you don't feel like putting that money on the line, just snap him off.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-28-2012 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5CardDrew
5/10 NLHE, Hollywood Casino, Charles Town

I should mention that this is the first shot I've taken at 5/10 and I was discovering how different it is from 2/5, and as a result, I played somewhat differently than I normally would.

Hero bought in for $500 and has built it up to $1500 playing an extremely tight short stack strategy, recently tripling up with AA.

Villain (covers) is one of the 3 soft spots at the table. His play is loose, somewhat aggressive, and generally weak. I have seen him get way too much money involved with weak hands several times.

Hero is UTG+1 (9 handed) with QJs. Raises to $35. This is a pretty light open for me, but I figured since I had been playing super tight so far, my hand would be over-repped and deceptive to those who did not realize that I was just short-stacking.

Folds to villain, 3 seats to my left, who makes it $85. All fold back to me.

I seriously considered folding here, but nearly 50% of pots were getting 3 bet and I wasn't so sure I was dominated. Also, I would be heads up with a weaker player, and I had some 30:1 implied odds, so I figured it wasn't too bad of a spot.

Hero calls $50.

Flop ($185): J J 6 rainbow

Hero checks, villain bets $100, hero calls. At this point, I figured he is betting his whole range, and I want to trap.

Turn ($385): 9 full rainbow

Since there were no reasonable draws out there, I figured most likely he either has overcards, in which case he can't call a bet and I might as well let him draw, or an overpair, in which case he will probably bet again. I checked.

Villain bets $250. Hero calls - After he bet, I figured the overpair scenario was a lot more likely. I didn't raise because I felt that calling the turn and leading the river was the best way to extract money from a hand like AA - QQ.

River ($885): A

Obviously a bad card that messes up my plan. If he has KK - QQ, I doubt he calls a bet if I lead out. If he has AA, I'm getting raised. I check the river hoping he checks it back.

Villain bets $500.

Hero?

Comments on all streets appreciated.
You should have check-raised the turn for pot sizing reasons.

You've put in $435 so far out of $1500. This is awkward pot sizing strategy, as the remaining stacks on the river are a bit too big for an all-in move, whilst any lesser raise puts you in an impossible position if he 3-bets you (too much in the pot to fold, but you're most likely beat). Was this situation predictable? Villain has bet 55% of pot on flop, 64% on turn, and 55% on river, so the river bet was well within expectations.

My solution to this situation is to grab the initiative on the turn. When you see him betting an amount that will put you in a difficult spot on the river, raise. If you're beat, you'll still lose your $1500 but at least you'll go down with all guns blazing and pipers on deck. Which is better in my estimation than calling your way to oblivion.

Moral: don't get 1/3 of your stack in at the river with a strong but obvious hand. Plan on getting in either more or less.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-28-2012 , 12:07 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. Some good stuff here...

Spoiler below:

Spoiler:

I called for the reasons alluded to by some of the responses above: I'm pretty much repping a middle pocket pair, so it's conceivable he bets the river with KK or QQ, and there's also a chance he was pushing AK or AQ and thinks he caught good on the river. Unfortunately, he showed 99 for the full house.

I posted the hand because it was really the first significant hand I've played at 5/10, and I took a pretty non-standard line. Even though I thought was optimal at the time, I was concerned afterwards that maybe I leveled myself here.

Thanks again for the comments.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-29-2012 , 03:13 AM
NH and snap river obv, you induced so much.
Unlucky obv
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-29-2012 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Lobster
You should have check-raised the turn for pot sizing reasons.

You've put in $435 so far out of $1500. This is awkward pot sizing strategy, as the remaining stacks on the river are a bit too big for an all-in move, whilst any lesser raise puts you in an impossible position if he 3-bets you (too much in the pot to fold, but you're most likely beat). Was this situation predictable? Villain has bet 55% of pot on flop, 64% on turn, and 55% on river, so the river bet was well within expectations.

My solution to this situation is to grab the initiative on the turn. When you see him betting an amount that will put you in a difficult spot on the river, raise. If you're beat, you'll still lose your $1500 but at least you'll go down with all guns blazing and pipers on deck. Which is better in my estimation than calling your way to oblivion.

Moral: don't get 1/3 of your stack in at the river with a strong but obvious hand. Plan on getting in either more or less.
Never c/r turn LMAO, Hero has an image of a somewhat weak/scared money guy, let him bluff you off your ***** pair, except that you have trips this time
And yeah wtf @ "i hope he checks back river", personally when i take such a line im hoping to get barreled LMAO, and im pretty much a degen, so with your image of nit i want to get barreled even more when they know you're probably not hero calling as others might do.
So with trips im fist pumping river.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-29-2012 , 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mAFrenchDonkey
Never c/r turn LMAO, Hero has an im hoping to get barreled LMAO,
I bet you 10k that you aren't laughing your ass off when you post LMAO.

That being said, if you c/r the turn for value, you could have played amazing poker and dumped it when he shipped. That could have happened for sure.

Also, just saying,

the worst line in the history of poker MAY (not sure) be,

C/C, C/C, C/C
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-29-2012 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
I bet you 10k that you aren't laughing your ass off when you post LMAO.

That being said, if you c/r the turn for value, you could have played amazing poker and dumped it when he shipped. That could have happened for sure.

Also, just saying,

the worst line in the history of poker MAY (not sure) be,

C/C, C/C, C/C
your suggested turn line may actually be the worst line in the history of poker.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-29-2012 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
I bet you 10k that you aren't laughing your ass off when you post LMAO.

That being said, if you c/r the turn for value, you could have played amazing poker and dumped it when he shipped. That could have happened for sure.

Also, just saying,

the worst line in the history of poker MAY (not sure) be,

C/C, C/C, C/C
Just to clarify, I wasn't planning to C/C 3 times. The options I considered OTT were C/C turn/bet river, and C/R turn.

I went with the first one thinking he really can't call the turn C/R with very many hands I can beat, but he can call a river lead-out. Unfortunately, one of the 8 cards that might prevent him from calling a bet on the river came.

In retrospect, I can see why this might be a much easier call than I thought at the time, but do you really think a C/R on the turn is a better line to take?

I mean, it seems like you're suggesting I could have gotten away from the hand, but I don't see the benefit... The checkraise would have cost me the same as the river call; if he shoves, I might actually be folding the best hand; and it's really not that likely I'm beaten OTT anyway. If we think he's calling the turn C/R as well as a river shove with an overpair, then I agree, but it sounds like you want to fold to a reraise.
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-30-2012 , 12:44 AM
With your image, c/r turn is awful....and if you did, folding to a shove is also terrible. You played the hand fine/optimally and got coolered. move on /thread
Flopped trips OOP Quote
12-30-2012 , 11:23 AM
OP if you want to be a winning player at 5/10, don't call 3b EP OOP with QJs vs good or bad players, don't ever think about "trapping" or even the use of the word "trap", and with trips 150bbs no straight or flush don't even think about doing anything other than getting it in.. unless you have a super good reason to think that he has a boat then you just call.
Flopped trips OOP Quote

      
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