Hand from last night 1/2 live session

£500 effectives 6 handed

Reg raises to 10 from EP, tight passive villain raises to 27, hero calls from button with 89s, reg calls behind.

Flop comes 885dd. Villain bets 35, hero raises to 90, reg folds, Villain shoves all in (450 more). Hero??


Relevant info: hero had been playing very aggressive - reasonable to suppose that villain assumed he'd be raising that flop very wide.

Villain had been playing tight passive but was stuck and possibly tilting from losing to fish all night.

Probably gotta call it off. Given the HH, villain is likely going to show up with more over-pairs then 8's in their hand. 55 is a possibility, but I don't see a tight/passive player 3betting pre with 55 often. There are 3 combo's of 55 and only one 8 left in the deck.

But this is a pretty much a call. If you lose, chalk it up to making a horribad call preflop. I mean come'on...you describe villain as being tight passive, yet are willing to call a 3bet from them when they become aggressive. If villain lost this hand it is just another example of the fish getting the best of him.

Edit - just looked at suits on board. The villain could have AKdd, AQdd etc. If villain was really tilting, they could have 76dd. 76os is possible, but substantially less likely.

Snap call. If he's really nitty like you said, you always have the best hand here. Fold pre. Call a tight passives 3bet with 22-QQ only. Yes that means folding AKs even. 4bet small and fold to 5bet with KK. We dont want to play KK multiway and 4bet small fold gets us value from worse and loses the min to AA. And 4bet call pre AA obviously

I don't see how you could ever fold here.

You got the flop you wanted. Didn't you call pre wanting to play for stacks if you flopped gin like this?

I should go a bit more into the table dynamics - there were 2 regs and myself as well as villain who'd been there throughout the session. Villain had commented not long before the hand that the fish had been doubling up off him and then leaving.

While I described villain as 'tight passive' that was in the context of a 6 handed game and specifically post-flop against hero who he didn't seem to enjoy playing against. Against other players he'd been playing relatively standard - he wasn't a nit.

Hero had been playing ~50% vp with WWSF of around 50% throughout the session. Although hero had shown down with a wide range of hands throughout the session (A2o and 8Ts in the past hour) it had usually been with the goods.
89s in position was superpremium based on the table dynamics.

Snap call dude, what hands with an 8 in it is a tight player 3betting? His range is almost always JJ+. If he somehow has you beat, then he's not tight passive and you just give him your money.

Then why didn't you 4bet/gii pre?

i´m curious to see how hero lost that hand. reads on players have to be pretty off.

preflop is very bad. you won´t flop gin enough nearly often enough compared to the times you wiff and have to fold or get into serious trouble with a marginal hand. also, you have the worst relative position, and the original raiser could 4bet.

as played, you actually flopped gin, and now you are considering raise/folding on more or less the best possible flop you could have hoped for? don´t get it...

I should go a bit more into the table dynamics - there were 2 regs and myself as well as villain who'd been there throughout the session. Villain had commented not long before the hand that the fish had been doubling up off him and then leaving.

While I described villain as 'tight passive' that was in the context of a 6 handed game and specifically post-flop against hero who he didn't seem to enjoy playing against. Against other players he'd been playing relatively standard - he wasn't a nit.

Hero had been playing ~50% vp with WWSF of around 50% throughout the session. Although hero had shown down with a wide range of hands throughout the session (A2o and 8Ts in the past hour) it had usually been with the goods.
89s in position was superpremium based on the table dynamics.

Obviously I called...he had Q8o which held up...yuck.

Regarding pre-flop play I include suited connectors in my 3-bet calling range here about 10-20% of the time for metagame and table image reasons. Obviously I'm usually an equity dog but I thought I had enough of a post-flop edge to make it a profitable call against a weak passive player.

As someone mentioned the original raiser can 4-bet squeeze, but due to table dynamics I thought it would be pretty unlikely he'd 4-bet light in this instance.

you don´t really need a 3bet coldcall range.
original raiser is a reg, may have noticed villains 3betting range is loosening up, he also prob sees your cold call as dead money if you do that more frequently, if he is a good reg, he should realize that this is a great spot for a light 4bet.

I hate pre. Price is just too high for sc's imo.

As played, fold. You basically announced your hand strength and with your raise. His shove indicates he has at least an 8.

you´re r/folding low trips in a 3bet pot with a fd with an SPR of around 5 vs the original threebettor? wp.

why raising in the first place then, btw? obv bluffing with trips.

I stoved my hand against a range of {AKdd, AQdd, 55, JJ+, 87o+, 87s+} and I had 51.12% equity, with a 7.21% chance of a chop.

I was calling ~390 to win ~650.

Grunch.

Um call? Isn't this guy's range almost exclusively QQ+ and AK/AQ diamonds here? He 3bet from MP right? How is he going to show up with 8x here?

Why did you post this hand?

Serious question.

It's not an interesting spot, but i find it very helpful to get others' opinions as I find it difficult to properly review spots I'm emotionally affected by like this.

It was a big cooler and I wanted to give my reasoning for my plays, have them criticised, try to defend them against said criticism, and then re-evaluate.

Thank you to everyone who posted.

As said, it's not necessary to have a 3-bet cold calling range for balance and I'm susceptible to a 4-bet from the EP opener; it should have been a fold pre.

As played I'm happy with calling the flop because I have good equity against his likely range which is mostly overpairs.

If you really thinks he 3bets that often or folds to 4bets way too often, this is a good spot to 4bet on occasion if you can get through PFR. Flatting is pretty bad on so many levels. Flat with like QQ+ to trap sometimes, but never with SCs

i´d 4bet such a guy pretty wide, so obv including QQ+ in it with some garbage. i would flat hands like KQs, AJs, AQ, TT in position vs a wide 3bettor (but again, hero labeled him as loose passive...)

His 3-bet % was very low, and he certainly hadn't shown down anything that would suggest that I could 4-bet light.

My *flawed* logic was that by calling with a sc I could stack him with his overpair if I flopped the world as my hand would be so disguised.