Yeah I think people just aren't looking at how the combination of so many factors in this unique hand and situation make bottom set have so much less value than on any other board.

- 7-way pot
- Board that is monotone and rundown, which is a huge difference from a board that is merely one of the two.
- Any bet we make, villains can comfortably call or make a play knowing they have two chances effectively to hit if they get it in. If we check and a blank hits the turn, our hand instantly hextuples in strength since villains now only have one chance to hit a card, and we can make a nice raise or big bet for fat value. Obviously we can still be behind to flopped monsters some amount of the time, but the weakness of a set on that flop is mostly arisen from all the draws that cripple our hand's intrinsic value.
- Great implied odds when we do fill up a quarter of the time.

If we were heads-up on that same board, then obviously we'll bet. If we were 7 handed but on a rainbow 987 board, then obviously we'll bet. But when there's a perfect ****storm of all these ridiculous aspects coming together in an unorthodox situation, then what's so wrong with making an unorthodox play in return?

I'd personally still bet this flop a decent percentage of the time if I felt it could work as per gameflow and villain's tendencies, but it's closeminded to just say 'lol how could you possibly check hurr'. If you consider the possibilities in the hand, checking doesn't have that many downsides and has plenty of merit to it, especially if you have overbetting in your arsenal. Stop leaning on arbitrary rules from outdated strategy books and consider what kind of outcomes can occur when you choose a certain play, and what the max you can win and the min you can lose will be.

[QUOTE=solfege;20578235]Yeah I think people just aren't looking at how the combination of so many factors in this unique hand and situation make bottom set have so much less value than on any other board.

- 7-way pot
- Board that is monotone and rundown, which is a huge difference from a board that is merely one of the two.
- Any bet we make, villains can comfortably call or make a play knowing they have two chances effectively to hit if they get it in. If we check and a blank hits the turn, our hand instantly hextuples in strength since villains now only have one chance to hit a card, and we can make a nice raise or big bet for fat value. Obviously we can still be behind to flopped monsters some amount of the time, but the weakness of a set on that flop is mostly arisen from all the draws that cripple our hand's intrinsic value.
- Great implied odds when we do fill up a quarter of the time.

If we were heads-up on that same board, then obviously we'll bet. If we were 7 handed but on a rainbow 987 board, then obviously we'll bet. But when there's a perfect ****storm of all these ridiculous aspects coming together in an unorthodox situation, then what's so wrong with making an unorthodox play in return?






Thanks, i meant the bold above, but dont think i ever said it.

Keep it simple.

Can more worse hands call than better? Yes.

We do not check just because we think it will make it easy on us.

well here i go again. How happy are we going to like it if we get CR and then a massive turn bet on a brick turn or STR/FL turn card? How likely is it that with 7 or 8 seeing the flop of 678 mono that we will have completed hands as well as big monster combo draws in the mix.

How likely is it that we can easily call a turn bet even if it is the worst card in the deck for us if i check the flop back?

I didnt check to make it easy on myself.

I guess there will just be the "i has a set" so i be betting camp, and then the "otherside" camp. OP has seen enough here to be able to decide which camp to pitch his tent.

One more time.

How often are we actually going to be c/raised in the first place?

bet flop, c/f maybe b/f turn and c/f river UI or facing a shove

yup

I really think ANL has it right. I don't think the bet the flop camp realizes how often we're beat here, and that whenever we're beat, we're getting c/r'ed on the flop.

Pokerstove only puts us at 34% against 7 random hands. Moreover, we have considerably worse equity than against 7 random hands, because 1/2 players are more likely to play any 2 suited or any 2 connected (56/JT). So when we see 7 limpers, their range is weighted even more towards straights and flushes that beat us. Any flush will c/r the flop if it doesn't bet out, and even straights might c/r too.

Our hand has almost surprisingly poor value unless we fill up by the river. Check and take the free card.

What are we betting on the flop; pot?

We've got seven opponents and the most drawy board imaginable. So the first guy is getting 2:1; admittedly, not great. But as soon as we get one caller, the next guy is getting 3:1. And the next guy will be getting 4:1 and all of sudden, all aboard, everyone is getting great odds to call. And half the deck kills our hand on the turn.

I don't think we can protect our hand on the flop. But I do think we can protect it on the turn, where the value of our hand changes drastically.

GimoG

ok, so lets check the flop and have some idiot hit a flush with his deuce of

obviously if someone has a ace hi draw they are never folding, but by betting the flop we protect against weaker draws calling us and sucking out.

Why do we care if some idiot hits a deuce high flush? We have $2 invested and the pot is small. Big deal. Besides, anyone hitting a small card flush on the turn (plus perhaps even idiot end straights, etc.) ain't betting vs 7 opponents and maybe we get to see the river.

Gicouldbewrong,butnoonehasconvincedmeyetG

yea but if we bet flop we get value from the draws and basically "protect" our hand by not giving out free cards.

im actually baffled by some of the responses saying to check here with a set, i thought this was a pretty standard bet on the flop.

hmmm 7 or 8 players with a 678 monotone flop.


well, we will get CR about as much as anyone could ever get CR here.

And i add, im not saying betting is wrong by no means. Im saying i choose yo check once IP, and get a better feel for the overall situation on the turn. Nothing wrong with betting at all.