1/3 50-200
9 handed

Table is either loose passive (family pot) or it folds around and is chopped. Very few preflop raises and when there are, it is folded around.

H 222 nitty tag
V covers loose passive preflop, aggressive postflop, watched him call tight players minraise with AT on a A65 board to turn spike a T on turn (tight player had AQ)
SB 500 weak tight loose passive
bb 100 same
utg 200 same

Preflop
Hero is HJ with Jc Th

Utg limps, V limps, Hero limps, blinds complete

Flop 9 8 7 5 players
Pot 20

Check, check, check, V bets 12, Hero makes it 32, fold, fold, fold, V call

Turn 6. 2 players
Pot 84

V bets 55, Hero shoves all in (187)....

It's fine.

Nice hand.

If you feel like villain is ever bluffing (unlikely considering how hand was played) calling is right, otherwise get it in.

Good job.

I fold pre. Postflop, I play the same.

Preflop is OK as long as you don't always limp in with that sort of marginal hand. Post flop is fine. Turn is bad card for you in the sense that you can't get any value from weak hands any more. At that point you might as well shove because any raise commits you to the pot and the only hands villain can play are TX, sets, combo draws and flush draws if he feels like gambling. You don't want to give any hand worth playing a free card and other hands are not putting any more money in.

Mostly good but if going to play JTo at all in highjack, best come in for a raise. A true TAG would raise or not bother.

Hm...

I don't say pre is bad btw, just pointing out how misleading player descriptions/reads can be sometimes...

You see enough threads where some villain is labeled a borderline nit or whatever, and every! action we take vs him is how to exploit the potential nit. Just sayin...

Postflop is obv fine, pre too imo, just don't think you are playing a TAG style

Pre is OK, but I'd probably raise from HJ against these guys since they are so fold happy. (I'd raise with a lot of hands -- they should be pretty easy to play against post-flop.)

Hand is fine otherwise.

A few weeks ago I would say well played. After talking with a friend about this type of game, I am leaning towards saying the play is too aggressive. We flopped the nut, life is good.

This week I'm more inclined to flat call to the river.

Here is the thinking. Flop bet is small, $12. Turn bet won't be much more, maybe $20 - $30. If we call the $12, and four of the five players stay in, the pot will increased by ~$50 of Other Peoples Money. Repeat on the Turn.

We have increased $ in our pot immensely by not jamming, and we are risking the minimum. If we lose the hand, because the table is playing weak tight that is okay, the investment was minimal.

The alternative as you know is we jam. We risk $ more for less return. This is the flavor of my week anyway.

I was keeping the SPR where I wanted it. I agree that a case could be made for raising at this table, but with everyone so passive, it is likely I am dominated and just building a bit pot for them.

But in late position, if they call/raise you have a good idea of the types of hands they have (or you should -- obviously fold to a 3bet from these guys). Then you have position and should be able to play against them pretty easily. If you raise and one person calls, is it a calling frenzy? If so, I understand the desire to limp.

I'm totally cool with overlimping and getting into a pot for cheap in position.

Our flop raise is way too small as it gives him decent odds of 3:1 plus. The board is super wet and has a zillion scare cards (we literally hate half the deck as it could kill our hand or kill the action). People don't like folding massive draws or sets / two pairs on the flop (in fact, they almost never do). So I like offering poor 2:1 odds, so I'd typically raise to $55. But this will create a slightly awkward $140 pot with $164 left. So instead I'd take advantage of the fact that no one folds decent draws on the flop and raise to a huge $65, which will setup a ~PSB for the turn. We will most likely lose all mediocre hands with this sizing; we don't care, imo.

As played, definitely shoving all in on the turn. We have to shove now before another scare card comes and an all-in is the only sizing.

ETA: Surprised that everyone is cool with our flop sizing? I'm not.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Cuz the goal of poker is to be a TAG?

GcluelessTAGnoobG

I count roughly 27 bad turn cards (both for our hand and for killing the action).

Also, "repeat on turn"? We think 4 or 5 players are going to the river? This isn't a Limit game. Most players will give up chasing their draws on the turn (but few of these players will ever fold their draw on the flop).

Gflattingtheflopishorrendous,imoG

Textbook. He's not folding a T.

OP: "Table is either loose passive (family pot) or it folds around and is chopped. Very few preflop raises and when there are, it is folded around..."

This table is weak tight and players need to be coaxed and coerced to put in money past the flop, raising does not do that. I don't think we are in a bad position or we hold an inferior hand. So why not invest the minimum, hoping to get more callers and $ in the pot?

With the raise to $32, who is left to call except the hand that can beat us? As played we end up heads up. Villain can get cute with us because we are heads up.

Villain can't get cute on the river with another player or two on the river as he needs a good read on two or more players. Having an extra player who may fold anyway makes our river decision is easier. We can invest less and perhaps win more.

I'm not sure if you realize we've flopped the nuts? (I say this due to the "who is left to call except the hand that can beat us" comment)

Why do we want to invest less when we've flopped the nuts? We're waiting until the river to see if it holds up? We're a huge 2:1 fave against flush draws / sets and even bigger against two pairs / pair + draw; we're pretty happy shoveling in the money as fast as possible especially when none of those hands are folding the flop.

ETA: There's only one possible exception to not fastplaying the flop here: and that's if super deep and worried about being freerolled by JTdd.

GcluelessNLnoobG

No, not at all... Goal of poker is to be whatever is exploitive under the given circumstances. However in his original post he described himself as playing a TAG style. A TAG would raise here preflop & so would a very good exploitive player.

I wouldn't make a play just because it's in accordance with a certain play style (even though JTo in the HJ is loose).

Hey QJ, what type of dynamic makes you feel OK limping a hand sometimes but not all the time? If it's -EV to do in a vacuum, why is it ok to do sometimes?

Exactly, we flopped the nuts. This is not an aggressive game, no one is calling the flop on a prayer and a draw. Once again from OP:

"Table is either loose passive (family pot) or it folds around and is chopped. Very few preflop raises and when there are, it is folded around."

Who are we ramming and jamming against. I'm for getting the most money in the pot. In this case the most will need to come from more than one player.

if you have to ask how to play this hand, you should be folding pre

We should have been running this table over for hours by now, based on the description. Hopefully, if we've done this, then the loose passives who have been sick of folding, folding, folding to our raises decide they're taking a stand at the exact moment this hand comes up, and one of them has slowplayed AA or has A9 or A 7 and it's time for him to take a stand against our flopped straight.

Agreed. Optimal exploitive play at this table as it is described, TJo should be raised here and he should almost never be limping with any hand whenever entering a pot. These weak/tight/passive conditions can be really fun when you know how to exploit the situation. As he played it post flop though, think it's OK. Probably could have bet a bit more on flop with that flush draw out there.

Nope, looks good on this wet board. Would raise a bit larger OTF ($45 or so).