JT and J7s are the same hand? Not seeing the logic here.

If you dont think folding pre is the right move despite having the button... And then want to know how you can get away from a flopped flush?

Maybe you were hoping for a flop of JJJ or 777, maybe, JJ7

Preflop: Fold. Even though you're on the button your relative position is terrible because you're caught between the likely flop bettor and all the people who will trail in behind you once you call. Also, the effective stacks are pretty shallow so you are going to have a tough time maneuvering your loose opponent's off hands when you bluff and you aren't going to hit enough flops to justify calling strictly on odds.

Flop: Call. If the white guy had an A high flush he wouldn't reshove if he's at all smart. By reshoving it looks as if he's trying to protect something. He might be trying to protect a hand like QT, but he could also be protecting T9, 65, 55, 88 and a host of other hands you beat. I wouldn't be overly worried about the clueless guy's range either as he is, well, clueless and could have anything.

Just my opinion...

Jaymond, I recommend you rethink what I quoted above. None of you 4 points justifies calling.

If you want to take advantage of a maniac who keeps raising you aren't going to teach him a lesson by calling and playing passive. If you want to take advantage of him stick it back to him by reraising. Of course, if he'll call a 3bet with the same garbage he raises with, then you'll want to practice some hand selection before coming over the top of him. That stated, just calling is wrong with every hand except maybe AA.

As for your numbered points:
1: Just because the game is being slowly dealt doesn't mean that playing more loosely than usual will be profitable

2: It doesn't matter that you have the button because your relative position is as bad as it gets. The action is coming from your right, and the whole field is left to act behind you. As an example of why this is bad for you, imagine that the flop comes J high. If the likely action was coming from your left, you get to see what the whole field does before you make your decision with top pair/crap kicker. With the action coming from your right on a J high flop you'll either have to uncomfortably ditch top pair or put some money in the pot knowing that you're totally screwed if anyone comes in behind you.

3: Calling with JTs isn't a good play in this spot either, but it's not nearly as bad as J7s because it's easier to make a straight with JT, it's easier to flop top pair with a T than a 7, and when you do flop a pair your kicker is slightly better.

Just my opinion...

Basically, consensus is fold pre call flop. I have to agree.

However, since I only had $20 invested, is folding despite possible worse hands shoving not a better play long term given other factors (nitty shover)? Am I being results oriented? Why gambool a buyin on one hand with $20 invested when there will be better spots later most likely?

IMO you're not going to find many better spots than this.

There is no such thing as money invested. Once you call a bet or make a bet the money is gone. There is only the pot and the remaining stack sizes.

Calling this pre is a major leak btw, and if you really compare j7s to jts here then you really have to reevaluate your game because the 2 hands are night and day.

J7 and JT are not the same. I was making a point about the poster's view of my preflop call affecting his view of the flop action. After the flop action, JTss or J7ss is the same (Jack high flush). I just wanted him to focus on the flop action.

I guess I should tighten up some. Thanks again to all for the input.

Op is not going find a better spot if he continues calling wif J7, just bcoz they're sooted...flopping a flush and wanting to fold...

therefore...Call! And if u are behind, u still have a straight frush draw ldo, but tat is wat u live donks get playing sooted J7

Call, other guy pushed with a high Flush draw. I'll play any two cards if I the other players well enough. See you soon hammerhead.

the hell is this thread still being bumped. fold this if you hate money

/thread

/thread lol

There are plenty of players I fold to here, many of them are old white guys.

One common theme I am finding as I go through these threads is the misconception that "he wouldn't shove there if he had a monster". Well, in live poker they do. Another is an over-reliance on the mathematical aspects of poker. We see people who huff and do "/thread" comments because they are applying standard online/midstakes live conventions + math to low limit live.

Third theme is serious disagreements in the nature of play which indicates that there exists a wider range of games than many realize. There are nitty games that play similar to online and action games where you often see $500-600 pots won by TPTK. I don't think that a lot of people, based on comments, have a lot of experience across the breadth of that spectrum.

All of that said, we should all be able to agree that the preflop call here is plainly an error, the stacks are not nearly deep enough to play that profitably.

Fold preflop.

Flop is sick. I could find a fold here but not very often especially knowing that there is no way that we are drawing dead.

But by far the hugest mistake is not folding preflop.

just shut up jolyroger

if you call pre, you are not folding this flop DUCY?

hahahhaa



i would def call here given the straight flush redraw IFFF you are behind.


if the shorty is obviously tilting then the old guys reshove could be protection with a worse hand.