1/2 NL Live Cash In Casino

Had just sat about 45 mins prior. Table has a lot of action and there is a lot of $ at the table. Most have over $1k, which is unusual in this game. Most raises pre have been unusually large - $20-$35. Some 3 bets. Several are overbetting the pot pretty often also. Im drooling basically.

V in this hand is older black guy. He is very active. Opening a lot and cbetting often and large. Hes also literally falling asleep between hands at the table. He obv loves any suited cards and bets his FDs everytime. He also plays pairs hard...heh, hes just super agro all around.

Hero starts hand with $295 and is covered by everyone.

MP MAWG opens for $12 and almost everyone calls including V. Im in BB with A5s diamonds and call as this is the smallest open yet and I close the action. 5 to flop.

($60) 5 5 8 - hero? I opt to check as its getting bet like 100% of the time. V bets $30. Btn tanks a sec and calls. Hero?

Pls include sizing.

Raise to 90 and shove non flush or straight completing turns

I don't like check/raising here because it reveals the strength of your hand.

I lead into the field and hope for fireworks. Value donk bets can be effective multiway because they don't just fold out the PF raiser's hands that whiff the flop.

Most people don't expect you to be leading 5x here. You can be raised by overpairs, draws, etc. I would expect action regardless 5 way with a wet board like this and I think we lead with a wider perceived range.

100% agree.

Agreed, but what are you doing when you get callers and turn brings draw-completing cards? You essentially let them draw for cheap.

^If we bet 3/4 pot they are getting incorrect direct odds to call vs our hand, with only limited implied odds. Also, draws aren't the only hand that will call.

Fwiw, if you think x/r 'reveals the strength of our hand', you aren't checkraising enough.

Problem with leading out though is we don’t let the aggressor cbet their overs and also don’t let them catch up with those overs OTT.

I say reraise $100, in a game like this it's often called. You probably have the best hand and try to gii.

I donk the flop, betting 2/3rds the pot after the rake. Common Recs don't bet here, which is the majority of players who opt to go for the c/r otf or ott. So my donk is taken as an overpair, 8x, flush draw 76. I get called a lot with a lot of different marginal drawing hands.

Since the bet was $12 pre & you show $60 in the pot, I take it you have 4 Vs, so it's not likely they have a set of 8s.

Agree with fatman on leading. The question is how much. With $60 in pot, and a draw-heavy board, a lead of $40-45 seems reasonable. Or, if you're confident that a smallish bet will get raised, then lead smaller ($20-25), and 3-bet big after the raise comes (possibly jam, depending on size of raise). Sometimes, the smallish donk bet is perceived as a draw trying to get a cheap turn card (I've seen this move tons where I play). This is a higher-variance play, but can result in winning a sizable pot.

As played, with the 1/2 pot bet and call, there's $120 in the pot. I raise to ~$120, and jam any 'safe' turn card.

I did raise to $120. Heres the question though. Can we really just x/f even an unsafe turn? I have like 165 behind.

I don’t donk if I am heads up with PF raiser or even 3-way. Also, despite V description, he’s not 100% c-betting overcards 5-ways on this board. Someone else is likely to bet anyway. Lastly, letting him “catch up” implies you think he will call your check raise which doesn’t make sense if you think he’ll fold to a bet.

I would go large OTF. $50 sounds right. FDs and overpairs aren’t folding based on bet size so may as well charge max value. Also ensures you just 3-bet shove to a raise with your stack size.

I lead for $20-$30 OTF. At an aggro table you want to give someone the chance to raise you so you can GII now. Only way to do that is lead.

AP, I make a PS raise OTF now ($180 total). Again at an aggro table, we are looking to prod aggro players to make the mistake the most often make...being aggro, in this specific spot, calling off light.

And no I don't ever fold this hand with your stack size regardless of the turn card.

Make it 120$ shove every turn.

I am very surprised to see all the votes for donking the flop. This seems questionable on a normal table, and bad on this table.

Someone is going to bet this and often get some callers, and then you can just bomb it. This is going to happen like 90% of the time.

The idea that you can bet 30 and count on someone raising...how often is that really going to happen? Besides, if they have a hand worth raising, they are going to bet and call your check raise anyway.

When was the last time you saw someone donk bet into multiple action players like this and have less than trips here? Any good player will see right through this. Against non-thinking maniacs, you are blocking them from firing at the pot with air.

This is why players like Doug Polk advocate never donk betting ever. Nobody is donking 76 and risking getting raised off their draw. Meanwhile, our check raise range can include draws and top pair/overpair hands.

Once you raise, you are never folding. Ship turn unless it is A or 5.

I like the donk lead on this flop 5 ways. Even at an action table I just don't think you can expect this flop to be bet and I think check-raising on this board does turn our hand face up.

no, any turn other than 8 you have to go all the way with imo.

or 8.

No I think once we make it 120$ or more we have take it to the felt. Even on an 8. Which is only going to happen @5% of the time anyway so whatever.

in my experience on a double paired board if we check the turn and get bet into, its an 8 often enough to find a fold. generally speaking every other hand is going to check it back on an 8 turn. but calling it off is certainly the GTO move.

I agree but what about the times V has a 5 with us or is clicking buttons?

well we're chopping now against a 5 and I don't think V calls a check raise and jams this turn just "clicking buttons" often enough to merit a call.

in real time i probably just pay this off cuz im a POW and I know (at least feel like) calling is GTO. also calling and seeing him have an 8 doesn't feel nearly as bad as folding and getting showed some non 8 hand.

i think if you stop and think about it though, c/folding when an 8 rolls off on the turn is right.