I've played w/ villain in question a few times before. He's about 80 yrs old and is generally pretty tight/ passive. The difference today is he's had a few drinks. He's not really playing noticeably different, but he's dropping chips on the floor etc.

Villain has about $260 in the bb, I cover, and we're playing 1/2.

Several limpers to me and I limp 84ss otb(normally I would fold but there's two huge whales in the game and I want to take their money before someone else gets it)

We see the flop 7 ways.

652sss($14)

checks to me I bet $10. 2 callers

Turn
Jx($44)

both players check to me I bet $35. BB raises to $100, other guy folds and I call.

River
4x($244)

Villain shoves for $150
Hero ?

just really depends on what sorts of hands this opponent considers the nuts on this board. some people will play sets on monotone boards like complete nits bc its not the nuts.

your decision has to be made ott. i'm never folding otr once i call his c/r.

you can't really make a huge mistake by calling here

pretty bad to call his turn raise then fold here... so it's either fold turn or call river

It's OK to fold this preflop.

If you DON'T fold it then, you have to pay off bets like this when you're sometimes beat.

Any chance he has 2-pair, or a 3 that thinks it's the nuts? Then you probably need to call. If he's really tight/passive enough that the turn raise is never anything other than a Flush you should just fold on the turn.

Either way, I think I make the decision on the turn and just ship it there if I think I'm good.

I would 3b shove turn, lot of river cards that might kill action. You got the best possible flop, so get your chips in there.

fold pre (you say you want to take the whales' money, but what hands are you going to have crushed that you will be stacking off against with 84ss?)

shove over his raise on turn.. what are you hoping to accomplish by calling his raise and seeing action on the river? i can see him making the turn raise and river shove with AsJ.. but i think youll also see XXss that has you beat as well a good amount of the time

calling pre is fine otb with some droolers in the game. i'm trying to get in as many pots as possible ip against these guys.

^

I don't really care about playing 84ss otb. Some would disagree with, but I mean I guess I could understand it. 85ss is a little different. You would have to look at the pre-flop ranks for hands in multi-way pots

Shove his turn raise. Every day. All day. So many cards could come to kill action.

This situation what you created is not really playing poker but pure big time gambling. There's no rational playing 84 suited ever unless in the big blind. Playing both ends of a straight is a losing proposition and going to war with a baby flush more so.

AK

I think that some people here are forgetting that bad players don't need a strong hand to stack off with. That is why we can get away with playing 84s. Are we going to get stacked some times when some one makes a higher flush or straight? We sure are. But often that doesn't out weigh the times that they make one pair and we make two pair+ and we stack them because the are just never folding AA on a KT446 board no matter what.

you think calling a pf raise and a big cbet on a board of KT4 with 84 and hoping to spike 2pr is a winning strategy?

That example doesn't really make much sense in comparison to the hand being played. Your talking about a whale that would be raising with aces and we call with 84 suited. Most likely a lot less players in the pot and your then calling another bet on the flop with bottom pair?

Don't think it needs to be a whale to turn trips with bottom pair to get paid. I also think people are going to want to be playing with the guy that plays 84 suited to a raise just because its on the button.

Eighty-year old dudes would rather crap into their Depends then semi-bluff checkraise turns like this with just a 4 or the As. The only worse flush he could have is exactly 73ss. I think that folding the turn was the correct play, and I think folding the river is correct, since there is no way you are good at least 38% of the time, unless he is so drunk that he's been splashing and spewing all over the place.

I snap call and he is 75% of the time is "zomg i have a straight"

Did you think about anything on the turn, or was it "I have a flush, I'm not going anywhere!"

Also why are we playing 84s at all really? I know you said there are whales here, but is this what you've been waiting for?

AP, I would be shipping the turn and paying it off rather than flatting. If you call, and he ships river you're never folding right? You made your 84 flush and figured it would be a winner, don't turn back now.

Fold pre, find a better hand to take with you, IMO

84s is so bad that I doubt it's +ev even against the drooliest of droolers. I fold pre.

I understand the criticism of playing 84s otb. Obv I'm folding 99.9%, but these guys were literally giving money away waiting for 2/5 or 1/2plo to open up. I won a 200bb pot shortly after this this w/ KK vs Q7o aipf against one of these guys.

As for the hand in question I tanked for a while and called. Villain had Qx7s. I was honestly stunned by his holding and thats the main reason I posted this thread. I'm kind of reluctant to make plays that turn my hand face up, but these responses give me something to think about. Thanks guys

Wow. A semi-bluff raise with a 7 high flush draw followed by a donk shove when it busts?

That sounds very out of character for "He's about 80 yrs old and is generally pretty tight/ passive." Even if he is a little drunk.

Honestly when I called the turn raise I felt I could only beat a bluff, so whats the the point in raising? In my mind he's folding everthing I beat and calling w/ all hands that beat me. Is this flawed logic?

Like I understand shoving turn simplifies the hand, but imo anyway the turn ch-r polarizes his range. Does a set/straight really take this line w/ so many potential scare cards?

I was really considering a fold until he stood up and spilled his drink. I was paying so much attention to the whales I neglected to notice how drunk he was getting. Probly 4-5 scotch+ waters.

if you thought you could only beat a bluff and doubted that this opponent would bluff here, then turn is a fold.

but i think there is a good chance that most opponents will over value weaker hands here and c/r with worse for value. adding in semi bluffs and it is going to be real difficult to fold turn or river here.

i was just stating that if you do decide to call turn, you should be committed to call a shove otr if nothing changes. never said you had to shove turn.

Fold pre. dont find this spot +EV in a limped pot at 1/2

Fold turn. i dont think your good here quite enough.

Once you call turn, rivers a call though