NLHE 1/2 8-handed (live, timed rake)

190 eff. No reads. Still early in the session.

I open to 5 UTG+1 with Ts 8s. I'm trying these small raises to get more experience with high SPR spots and to be able to raise more hands.

CO 3bets to 15. Both blinds call.

Flop ($60): Ad 6s 7s

Checks to me. Your play?

You should have posted this with the entire flop action cause not many people are going to play guessing games and type out answers for 4 different scenarios in this spot.

I dont mind your preflop logic because of timed rake but T8s from EP is still way too loose. Play the flop in a way where you are pushing out potential higher flush draws from the blinds if they call and gamble with the original 3 bettor.

Fold pre, we're nowhere near deep enough to be opening this in UTG+1, even if you were deep enough, you'd only want to do it at very low frequency and be pretty comfortable with your postflop ability before doing so.

As played, check to the 3bettor.

Open fold pre, fold to 3bet, don't open to $5 in 1/2. I like small open raises even at like 2/5, raising to like $15. But at 1/2 I think the game is mind numbingly dumb if you just raise to $5. I would go at least $8. I prefer $10. Also prefer to sit as deep as possible, but at least $500 deep if possible.

Honestly, not sure what size people are normally opening in your game, but $15 may not even be considered much of a 3bet.

As played, check to the preflop raiser. They should have really strong hands like AK, AQ, AA, while you should be 4betting a lot of hands like AA, AK, so you likely won't have them in your range.

This multiway with a good draw, both check call and check raise are options.

OP has given rationale for experimenting with small sizes and wide range so that seems fine to me, they appear to understand that's non standard so I'm not going to play preflop police.

Clear check on the flop on this Ace high board, it's no bad thing if it gets checked through and you have options if CO bets depending on action from the blinds

Check raise all in.

Unless this game is different from every 1-2 game I've ever played this open size isn't doing what you want.

One of the reasons you can't open bigger/wider in earlier position is that there are a lot more people behind you who will 3bet your open ... but this is very unlikely at most 1-2 tables. What is much more likely to happen is that you'll get the same number of players to the flop as if you just limped.

Opening to $5 with T8s isn't the worst ... but you _really_ don't want to do that with AA, and if you split your open sizes then some people will notice. Also GTO ranges have T8s as a small percentage open from HJ, and a 100% open from CO (for 2.25x).

Calling 3bets OOP with a suited 1 gapper is just bad, would probably be worse at 2-5 but still...


On flop you are in a bad spot of your own making. Donking A high flop isn't a good spot even though this is better than some, dito. x/r ... but you kind of have to hope he has KK and bets flop because I doubt people are folding top pair in a 3bet pot.

Thanks for the replies.

Any thoughts on a donking range? I have other flush draws and sets here.

This is what happened.

I donk to 20. 3-bettor and BB call.

Turn ($120): Ad 6s 7s 4s

I bet 75 (thought this was too big but then...), CO thinks for 2-3 seconds then calls, BB folds.

River ($270): Ad 6s 7s 4s 2d

I bet 80 all-in, CO thinks for 60 seconds, calls, then shows Kd and immediately leaves the table. He had AK for sure right?

And what do you think of my play if I decide to have a donking range? Is having a donking range not a good idea on this flop?

I like donking because I felt like I could shove vs a raise by the 3-bettor on the flop. But based on replies, I might be overestimating the fold equity of that shove.

Checking is ideal really. He is gonna bet with too many hands and we get to collect his cbet with a check raise. And if he calls our all in it’s not so bad. And if it checks around that’s not so bad either.

You played it fine on the turn and river. You can go smaller on turn like 33% or 50% and still jam river though.

As to your questions about having a donking range on the flop, donks are more from the big blind on boards that really favor them like 765 where they can have all the straights, sets, and two pair combos and the preflop raiser has a lot of AK, AQ, suited ace, suited broadway type hands that have nothing, which BB doesn't have as much of because they didn't 3bet.

It's not so much that you are artificially constraining yourself on the flop by saying you will or won't have a donking range. On every flop you should consider the EV of a donk, but if the EV of donking is lower than your other options, you shouldn't donk. You have more fold equity with bluffs if you check raise on this board and you get more value with value hands when you check raise.

You can shove over a raise over your donk, but it likely won't have much fold equity on this draw heavy board, especially considering how small your stack is. At that point you just have enough equity vs his range to get it in.

You also don't have that much fold equity if you check flop and he bets and you shove, but at least there he could be cbetting without an ace possibly and maybe folding ever so slightly more often. You also just have enough equity to get it in at thay point and you can have sets that has him crushed, but he has to call off top pair here because you can have bluffs.

Ok, cool thx. Checking is better because of the Ace on the flop.

So then, what is your plan for these situations?

* 3-bettor bets 60 and everyone folds

* 3-bettor bets 60 and BB calls

* 3-bettor bets 30 and everyone folds

* 3-bettor bets 30 and BB calls

* 3-bettor bets 30 and SB and BB both call

I think you x/r all in for all 5 spots.

You have garbage equity vs. As*s and just praying nobody has that ... but you want to max folds from everything else, although again I doubt anyone is folding a good Ax in a 3bet pot when you didn't even start with 100bb.


CO bets 15 again, and it folds to you is maybe the most tricky spot ... not sure if small raise and shove lots of turns is better or just shove flop.


Also if I donked it'd be a higher amount, like we can _maybe_ donk here sometimes even though it's an A high flop but certainly not enough of the time that we want to bet small.
Eg. 35 flop; 60 turn; 80 river is the same money but better distributed.
Also wp turn card

I think in this particular spot on the flop, a check/raise has little to no fold equity, mainly because a bet would already mean a strong hand. So I would basically never be check/raising as a bluff. Whether that means I lead everything, or whether that means I check/call everything, or whether I split my range if I think no one will notice, is situation-dependent. But I could not imagine a check/raise bluff here.

The x/r is also in a rough spot cause we have to make it enough to get the blinds to fold on the flop but on the turn we aren't even going to have a psb against 1 caller to our x/r. If we jam our hand really looks like a draw.

Can we balance by x-jamming our sets (66, 77) too?

You don't need to balance if you've never played with these players like you said. Regardless if you would bet a set the same way the players who you never played with before are going to look at an overbet jam on the flop on a wet board as a draw most of the time.