This is one of those spots when it happens I generally feel unhappy with the way the hand plays out on my end, kind of a damned if you do, damned I'd you don't thing...

Live 5/5 @Hustler

All stacks are roughly 100bbs maybe slightly less on villians..I'm fairly new to table, only pot I played I 3! AJsuited from cutoff raiser and took it down pre...been playing 30mins....utg raises $15 (typical raise is 20-25 in this game but people do abnormal things a lot so I don't think much of it) utg+3 calls, I call with 67clubs in BB. Flop 345 with two clubs...original raiser is middle age Armenian/Greek guy, utg3 middle age Asian guy...no reads or metagame etc with either of them so let's assume they are avg 5/5 players...what now? And why? I will put the way the hand plays out but want to get a few responses first..

you try to get all of your chips in the middle.

Very insightful post, adds greatly to the topic at hand...Do you donk to build pot, do you c/r and risk a check through, flat call..I know there's a million ways to play it and am just curious as to what other players thought process is in certain situations and why..

With no reads I lead out for like 1/2 pot cuz it's easy to get checked through on a board like this.

If there had been a serious raise preflop then I would look for a check raise hoping it looked drawy, a pair+ sd or sd/fd type hands. Since there are no reads, you have no specific donk range in their eyes. I lead for $25 (pot was 45).

Original raiser probably has SCs, A2-6 suited, and small pp's, occasionaly somebody shows up with AA/KK/AK hoping to get 3b by looking weak (basically a LR).

If this was online I'd need to look at the opponents in my HUD to decide what the best line is.

Not sure how that translates to live, though.

doing anything for half of the pot is awful

Bet, bet, bet, 4/5 pot each street

LoL!

Anyways there was one more person pre, he was after original raiser because pot was 60ish...I check flop, orig raiser bets 60, fold, utg3 calls $60, now its on me....

raisey daisey. $200 seems about right.

$165.

I would bet all three streets don't check it. I don't like calling oop with 67 agaist two players you have no reads on. If you flop anything else besides a str8 and gets tons of action what do you do. If you knew the players and had reads on them then I could see how you can play that hand oop but I would want for that hand in position and with players you have reads on. But with that flop bet all 3 streets and the only timebim checking if I know someone is waiting to bet. What do you guys think?

I know what type of flop I am looking for, and I am not getting married to a weak hand I am fine playing this hand oop...I would be more concerned about AJ/aq oop..

Lurk moar, that's what I think.

A+.

I'm leading flop. And half pot is not horrible as big Ax is a big part of UTG's Pfr range, and he prob loves that bottom gutter equity.

Raise now, no size is ever that bad. You can go small b/c you have such a strong hand and they'll probably fold a lot... you can go big because you have such a strong hand and are OOP and want to build a pot. Win/Win dude... just raise now b/c you want to take initiative and start building a pot, especially considering that you're OOP and if you overcall there it's going to look very strong anyways.

Totally agree that we need to raise. But lately I have been confused by a broader notion brought up by jimmy: Is the overcall here "very strong anyways" all of the time without reads/history? I have been seeing this in a lot of threads lately. This flop is wet and there are plenty of peel-type hands hero can have (AcX, 66, 22, 86s, combos, etc.). Are V2 or hero just calling with a set on that board? I'm a live player, and IME the overcall here does not look that strong.

Maybe it's semantics of "strong" (I assume "strong" in this circumstance means a strong made hand). But I assume V1 is going to feel fine with an overpair if Td comes on the turn. When V1 gets Belugaed on his turn raise, then it's time to get worried, no.

Cliffs: Is the overcall of a raise on a wet board made-hand strong more often than not?

I dont think an overcall looks particularly strong in this spot. A set is raising here almost always as well as 2 pair bc the board is coordinated and super drawy. Its not like there was check 60 180 hero flatting, we are just calling the original raise.

Either way I like raising in this spot, 200 is best imo, but you can make the case for different sizing.

To me an overcall looks like a 77 type hand.

you're right on a board this wet most people wouldn't slowplay so a super strong hand (one we want to get in).

This is an interesting hand to compare with the discussion in the AirJamaica/Borgata thread that is ongoing right now in terms of OOP "bloating" or fake "bloating." There, people seem to like call/call/fold OK on a dry-ass board with TPGK. Here, hero cannot really represent a TPGK/three-barrel bluff catcher-type hand to well (77?) and a ton of cards kill action. It's obv not apples-to-apples but still. In the end here, it really depends whether and how much villain puts combo-type hands in your raising range.

Checking flop to checkraise is the normal play here, and I don't see a good reason to make the "weird" play of leading out instead. You want as many people as possible to get involved, and given everyone's position, checking lets UTG bet, and others call before you reveal anything. If you bet out, UTG might raise and you're less likely to get anyone else trapped in the middle.

I made it $165...both hollywooded then folded.

You were damned from the start